U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old Yesterday, 11:45 AM
Status: "Nozzeated - monumentally." (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
24,987 posts, read 12,937,362 times
Reputation: 11436

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCyou View Post
Your interpretation is much flawed; the 'many nations' did indeed destroy tyre


...snip....

excerpt from: Apologetics Press - Tyre in Prophecy



The rest of the article documents the demolished old city of tyre remains completely buried under the sea and sand (flattened as prophesied!) gone forever! SURE, a modern city exists in roughly the same area now, but certainly NOT a 'rebuilt' tyre
Apologetic Press. They must be an objective source.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old Yesterday, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,787 posts, read 10,071,307 times
Reputation: 2520
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCyou View Post
Your interpretation is much flawed; the 'many nations' did indeed destroy tyre


3therefore thus says the Lord GOD: See! I am coming against you, Tyre;
I will churn up against you many nations,
just as the sea churns up its waves.
4They will destroy the walls of Tyre
and tear down its towers;
I will scrape off its debris
and leave it a bare rock.


and...


7Indeed thus says the Lord GOD:
I am bringing up against Tyre
from the north, Nebuchadnezzar,
King of Babylon, king of kings,
with horses and chariots, with cavalry,
and a mighty horde of troops.b
Your daughter cities on the mainland
he shall slay with the sword.
He shall build a siege wall around you,
throw up a ramp against you,
and raise his shields about you.
9He shall pound your walls with battering-rams
and break down your towers with his axes.

then, back to 'many nations'

12They shall plunder your wealth
and pillage your goods;
They will tear down your walls
and demolish your splendid houses.
Your stones, timbers, and debris
they will cast into the sea.


Ezekiel 26:3-4 + 7-9 + 12
So now you have two failed prophecies where before you only had one, because Nebby didn't destroy Tyre (he didn't even capture it) and Alexander rebuilt it.

But look at this...

7Indeed thus says the Lord GOD:
I am bringing up against Tyre
from the north, Nebuchadnezzar,
King of Babylon, king of kings,
with horses and chariots, with cavalry,
[i]and a mighty horde of troops.[i]
Your daughter cities on the mainland
he shall slay with the sword.
He shall build a siege wall around you,
throw up a ramp against you,
and raise his shields about you.
9He shall pound your walls with battering-rams
and break down your towers with his axes.

It is clearly referring to Nebby and states that HE (Nebby)...
will shall slay with the sword.
He shall build a siege wall around you.
He will throw up a ramp against you.
He will raise his shields about you.
He shall pound your walls with battering-rams.
He break down your towers with his axes.

It didn't happen. Nebby didn't do any of that. He didn't even capture Tyre. He came to a negotiated peace.

And then look what you do. Right in the middle of a passage that is clearly referring to Nebby, you want to change it to 'many nations'.

Quote:
and compiled from (secular) historical records...
...and put together by Christian apologetics. No thanks.

Quote:
The rest of the article documents the demolished old city of tyre remains completely buried under the sea and sand (flattened as prophesied!) gone forever!
No it doesn't friend. I have been there and can tell you that you are wrong. I was there just five years ago and I can assure you that ancient Tyre is not a bare rock. It can still be seen on the southern half of the island whereas modern Tyre occupies the northern half and also sprawls across Alexander's causeway and onto the mainland.

If it was destroyed never to be rebuilt, perhaps you can explain how, according to the Bible, both Jesus and Paul visited Tyre? According to the Bible,Tyre existed in the days of Jesus, who "withdrew into the parts of Tyre and Sidon" at one time during his personal ministry (Matt. 15:21), and it existed in the time of the Apostle Paul, who, returning from one of his missionary journeys, stopped there, found disciples, and tarried with them seven days (Acts 21:3).

Quote:
SURE, a modern city exists in roughly the same area now, but certainly NOT a 'rebuilt' tyre
You can smack all you want but after the destruction by Alexander, he rebuilt it because of its strategic importance as a port. You should try reading REAL historians rather than bible apologetics. Try The History of Tyre by Wallace B. Fleming. Fleming said this of the city's defeat by Alexander:

Alexander then left the city which was half burnt, ruined, and almost depopulated. The blackened forms of two thousand crucified soldiers bore ghastly witness to the completeness of the conquest. The siege had lasted from the middle of January till the middle of July, 332 B.C. The city did not lie in ruins long. Colonists were imported and citizens who had escaped returned. The energy of these with the advantage of the site, in a few years raised the city to wealth and leadership again

Bottom line is that Nebby failed to destroy Tyre or even capture it. You have confirmation of that in your Bible if you care to look at the Egypt prophecy where Ezekiel prophesised that Yahweh would give Egypt to Nebby as compensation for his failure to take Tyre as the prophecy had predicted...

Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon caused his army to labour strenuously against Tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from Tyre, for the labour which they expended on it.

That prophecy also failed.

Alexander did flatten it and rebuilt it. It is now the fourth largest city in Lebanon.

Now lets look at the dishonest way you have tried to introduce 'many nations' into a passage that is clearly and unequivocally referring to Nebuchadnezzar and his army. This is the main part of the prophecy and it refers to Nebuchadnezzar not 'many nations'. I have bolded where it is referring to Nebby (He) and his horses, chariots, horsemen, and an army with many people (They) There is no indication in the following passage that it is suddenly breaking off from referring to Nebby and changing the reference to 'many nations'. 'They' is referring to Nebby's army not future attacks by 'other nations'.

For thus says Yahweh God: "Behold, I will bring against Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses, with chariots, and with horsemen, and an army with many people. He will slay with the sword your daughter villages in the fields; he will heap up a siege mound against you, build a wall against you, and raise a defense against you. He will direct his battering rams against your walls, and with his axes he will break down your towers. Because of the abundance of his horses, their dust will cover you; your walls will shake at the noise of the horsemen, the wagons, and the chariots, when he enters your gates, as men enter a city that has been breached. With the hooves of his horses he will trample all your streets; he will slay your people by the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground. They will plunder your riches and pillage your merchandise; they will break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses; they will lay your stones, your timber, and your soil in the midst of the water. I will put an end to the sound of your songs, and the sound of your harps shall be heard no more. I will make you like the top of a rock; you shall be a place for spreading nets, you shall never be rebuilt, for I Yahweh have spoken,"

It's all referring to the attack by Nebby and there is no change half way through it where it changes to referring to somebody else as you need to have in order to make your apologetics work. Your 'many nations' wheeze fails miserably. Nebby never did any of it. He didn't capture the city, he didn't sack it. What Nebby captured was a small residential area on the mainland but that wasn't the city of Tyre. Tyre was the island fortress.

Last edited by Rafius; Yesterday at 01:12 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 12:21 PM
 
10,757 posts, read 10,975,045 times
Reputation: 3269
One of countless Biblical promises and prophecies that have failed. Jesus swore on numerous occasions he would return before his apostles had died. Poor deluded fool getting himself strung up on a cross because he actually thought he was the son of God. Only then did he realize he'd been fooling himself all along when he yelled, "My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me?"
I notice the date of your OP in 2009. I was still fundamentalist then and probably would have lambasted you if I'd seen this thread. You were in on the joke even then I see.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,787 posts, read 10,071,307 times
Reputation: 2520
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
One of countless Biblical promises and prophecies that have failed. Jesus swore on numerous occasions he would return before his apostles had died. Poor deluded fool getting himself strung up on a cross because he actually thought he was the son of God. Only then did he realize he'd been fooling himself all along when he yelled, "My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me?"
I notice the date of your OP in 2009. I was still fundamentalist then and probably would have lambasted you if I'd seen this thread. You were in on the joke even then I see.
I sussed out the joke in 1963.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 01:12 PM
 
8,246 posts, read 3,677,955 times
Reputation: 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Apologetic Press. They must be an objective source.
Typical escape route. When all else fails, just attack the credibility of the source, right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,787 posts, read 10,071,307 times
Reputation: 2520
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Typical escape route. When all else fails, just attack the credibility of the source, right?
No, just read it and you'll see why it doesn't stand up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,787 posts, read 10,071,307 times
Reputation: 2520
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCyou View Post
SURE, a modern city exists in roughly the same area now, but certainly NOT a 'rebuilt' tyre
LMAO! Well if a modern city stands there now and it's called Tyre then it's been rebuilt hasn't it!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 01:38 PM
 
10,757 posts, read 10,975,045 times
Reputation: 3269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
I sussed out the joke in 1963.

Nothing like getting an early start. Can't rep you. In fact, everyone I try to rep triggers a "must spread some around before..." System doesn't like my threads.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 02:02 PM
 
3,272 posts, read 1,020,007 times
Reputation: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Nothing like getting an early start. Can't rep you. In fact, everyone I try to rep triggers a "must spread some around before..." System doesn't like my threads.
Mine too.

someones prayers must be working?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 02:29 PM
 
37,383 posts, read 10,104,106 times
Reputation: 4965
One thing I'll have to look at is where Alexander fits in. Raffs looks at the Nebuchadnezzar 'prophecy'. But I'm thinking about the one where Tyre is destroyed and a 'place for spreading nets'. Which. shortly after the fall of Tyre to the Macedonians it was. So that 'prophecy' can be pretty neatly dated by the context, as it wasn't too many years before it was rebuilt and a later Macedonian had to come and knock the place over again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top