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Old 04-04-2019, 08:07 AM
 
Location: USA
193 posts, read 67,326 times
Reputation: 342

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Well, this is just going in circles now;


Raf refuses to look/consider/interpret the WHOLE of the text/prophecy choosing instead to 'force' just a few verses (Neb) to 'fit' his agenda...... round and round and round ....



Trans at least looks at the whole text, but still is getting tripped up between "I", "They", and "He";



Tyre WAS a proud interpenetratable walled fortress and luxurious mainland city and wealthy peoples(and re-known economic 'center of the world') - ALL flattened ( ALL her soldiers killed and remaining peoples sold off into slavery) and never rebuilt as it was before (which is what 'rebuilding' entails). Kinda hard for her peoples to 'rebuild' when THEY no longer exist! Only RUINS remain till today on original sites. Prophecy fulfilled. See for yourself - Google for current pics/images of ruin sites. NO walled fortress- NO luxurious city. (snip)

Last edited by CCCyou; 04-04-2019 at 08:36 AM.. Reason: (snip) removed-'Of course Raf recently stayed at a Motel6 in 'tyre' , so we must be 'wrong'. - I acq. uncalled for... :('
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Old 04-04-2019, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,859 posts, read 10,106,042 times
Reputation: 2529
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCyou View Post
Tyre WAS a proud interpenetratable walled fortress and luxurious mainland city...
No it wasn't. Tyre was an island OFF the coast. That is why Alexander had to build a causeway to get at it. What was on the coast was a small residential suburb which wasn't even called Tyre. Tyre proper was the island. It was known as the 'Queen of the Seas.' Read your bible. It tells you that Tyre was an island.

Phoenician Tyre was queen of the seas, an island city of unprecedented splendor.
http://www.middleeast.com/tyre.htm

I'm beginning to think all you know about Tyre is what you have gleaned from your favourite apologist website. And why don't you answer some of the questions I asked you. If Tyre wasn't rebuilt, how did both your Jesus and Paul visit the place?

Quote:
.....and wealthy peoples(and re-known economic 'center of the world') - ALL flattened ( ALL her soldiers killed and remaining peoples sold off into slavery) and never rebuilt as it was before (which is what 'rebuilding' entails).
Ah! So now the goalposts are changing from 'never rebuilt' to 'never rebuilt as it was before'.Well here's the news. London, Berlin, Dresden and dozens of other cities were flattened in WWII and none of them were built 'as they were before' but they are still London, Berlin and Dresden. They were rebuilt and survive as those cities today...just like Tyre.

Quote:
Kinda hard for her peoples to 'rebuild' when THEY no longer exist!
Did you even read what I posted? Here it is again from one of the foremost historians of his day, W.B. Fleming :-

Alexander then left the city which was half burnt, ruined, and almost depopulated. The blackened forms of two thousand crucified soldiers bore ghastly witness to the completeness of the conquest. The siege had lasted from the middle of January till the middle of July, 332 B.C. The city did not lie in ruins long. Colonists were imported and citizens who had escaped returned. The energy of these with the advantage of the site, in a few years raised the city to wealth and leadership again.

Quote:
Only RUINS remain till today on original sites. Prophecy fulfilled. See for yourself - Google for current pics/images of ruin sites.
Why don't you show us a picture of these 'ruins'. Having been there, I'm pretty sure I know what you are mistaking for the 'ruins of Tyre'. I went on quite a few archaeological tours on my two visits to Tyre and the ruins that can be seen are mainly Greco-Roman, Crusader, Arab, and Byzantine. Most of the remains of the Phoenician period destroyed by Alexander, lie beneath the present town, which would suggest to anyone with half a brain that if ancient Tyre is underneath the present town, it was rebuilt. There are ruins of a Crusader church, a street with a 2nd-century mosaic pavement and a double colonnade of white green-veined marble, Roman baths, the ruins of a Roman-Byzantine necropolis, and the largest 2nd century Roman hippodrome.

Archeological Tyre
For a period of nearly 50 years the General Directorate of Antiquities excavated in and around Tyre, concentrating on the three major Roman archaeological sites in the town, which can be seen today.

http://www.middleeast.com/tyre.htm

The two UNESCO sites of Tyre, al-Mina and al-Bass, are home to Roman and Byzantine remains of the city’s flourishing period.
http://www.living-lebanon.com/tyre-a...cal-sites.html

Got it? Byzantine, Roman and Greco-Roman. Those are your 'ruins' old son.

Quote:
Of course Raf recently stayed at a Motel6 in 'tyre' , so we must be 'wrong'.
Wrong about the hotel but right about being wrong.

Last edited by Rafius; 04-04-2019 at 08:59 AM..
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Old 04-04-2019, 09:07 AM
Status: "Pr 6:16-19, JeffBase, Pneuma!" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
4,123 posts, read 754,721 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCyou View Post
Well, this is just going in circles now;


Raf refuses to look/consider/interpret the WHOLE of the text/prophecy choosing instead to 'force' just a few verses (Neb) to 'fit' his agenda...... round and round and round ....



Trans at least looks at the whole text, but still is getting tripped up between "I", "They", and "He";



Tyre WAS a proud interpenetratable walled fortress and luxurious mainland city and wealthy peoples(and re-known economic 'center of the world') - ALL flattened ( ALL her soldiers killed and remaining peoples sold off into slavery) and never rebuilt as it was before (which is what 'rebuilding' entails). Kinda hard for her peoples to 'rebuild' when THEY no longer exist! Only RUINS remain till today on original sites. Prophecy fulfilled. See for yourself - Google for current pics/images of ruin sites. NO walled fortress- NO luxurious city. (snip)
But there is a city. it is not an exact copy, but it is still a city on the site of old Tyre. By your definition, the city of Köln does not exist.
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Old 04-04-2019, 09:33 AM
 
Location: USA
193 posts, read 67,326 times
Reputation: 342
No Walled Fortress. Lotta rock. Lotsa grass. Lotsa room for nets!!
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:01 AM
Status: "Pr 6:16-19, JeffBase, Pneuma!" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
4,123 posts, read 754,721 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCyou View Post
No Walled Fortress. Lotta rock. Lotsa grass. Lotsa room for nets!!
In that part of the city. The other part to the north was built on.

And you will find those remains in your picture are Roman and Greek buildings built upon the old ruins.

But thank you for the image that demonstrates you were wrong.
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:01 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,721 posts, read 4,604,431 times
Reputation: 1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Indeed my dear old scrot. Whichever way we cut it, the prophecy fails. Nebuchadnezzar didn't take Tyre as the prophesy said he would and although Alexander did take Tyre, he rebuilt it. Tyre is not a bare rock where fishermen spread their nets and, if we look for it, it CAN be found. Score to us I think!

...............
One of my sunday school teachers (who claimed he would in fact murder babies as he found them, if he were not expecting a reward from heaven for being good) interpreted the prophecy of Tyre to mean that EVENTUALLY maybe 4000 years later or more, Tyre would be destroyed by foreign nations and would remain forgotten and not rebuilt, remain as a rocky dessert Island.

Weird because he also believed that Jesus would return at any moment to fulfill his wishes and fantasies about towering as a Gold and Diamond king over still gold and diamond "janitors" for keeping the NT laws accurately (In his belief that Christians were saved by faith alone, but rewarded according to how accurate their Christianity was).

Of course, religion being false and science being true, he could have just interpreted it as being metaphorical, as their particular Church pastor did with many of the destructive OT stories.

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 04-04-2019 at 10:20 AM..
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,859 posts, read 10,106,042 times
Reputation: 2529
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCyou View Post
No Walled Fortress. Lotta rock. Lotsa grass. Lotsa room for nets!!
Well thanks for demonstrating that all you know about Tyre is what you have gleaned from Bible apologist sites. Not only don't you know what the hell you are talking about but you don't even have the intellectual integrity to respond to what people have given you to look at.

I've told you what that area is. I have given you links that explain what those areas are and links from official Tyre tourism websites that tell you that the Tyre that Alexander destroyed is UNDER the modern town, but of course, you didn't read them because you just don't want to know do you? That tells people that read this thread a lot.

Lets put another nail in your coffin of wilful ignorance. Look at the picture that you posted. Note the pencil like structures towards the bottom right of the picture. Now go back to my post #32 and take note of this that I wrote when describing the ruins that are there...

There are ruins of a Crusader church, a street with a 2nd-century mosaic pavement and a double colonnade of white green-veined marble, Roman baths, the ruins of a Roman-Byzantine necropolis, and the largest 2nd century Roman hippodrome.


Well thanks for giving us a nice picture of the 2nd century street with the double colonnade. Above the street you can see the Roman-Byzantine necropolis. Below the street are the Roman baths. What you are showing is not the evidence of Alexander's destruction but evidence of Greco-Roman, Crusader, Arab, and Byzantine occupation that I told you about in post #32.

You really are making an arse of yourself thinking you can fool people that have ACTUALLY spent time there. So let me give you the Dumbo Of The Year Award given to those that destroy their own argument with their own 'evidence.

Congratulations!


Last edited by Rafius; 04-04-2019 at 10:46 AM..
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:17 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,721 posts, read 4,604,431 times
Reputation: 1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
But there is a city. it is not an exact copy, but it is still a city on the site of old Tyre. By your definition, the city of Köln does not exist.
And Athens has ruins everywhere also.
The Greeks called the mainland of Tyre, "Old Tyre."
Tyre also means "rock".

Quote:
Once his troops forced their way into the city, they easily overtook the garrison, and quickly captured the city.

Those citizens who took shelter in the temple of Melqart were pardoned by Alexander, including the king of Tyre.

According to Quintus Curtius Rufus, 6K fighting Tyrian men were killed within the city and 2K Tyrian fighters were crucified on the beach. The others who were not lucky or wealthy enough to take shelter in the Temple, some 30,000 people, were sold into slavery. The severity of reprisals reflected the length of the siege and Alexander's response to the Tyrians having executed some of his soldiers on the walls, in sight of Alexander's army.

Following the capture of Tyre, Alexander moved south to attack Gaza.
Looks like there was no Genocide or Trail of Tears.

The people of Tyre 30,000 people, stayed on the Island. They probably weren't racist either. But we can ask about genetics and genealogy to see if Tyre has not been rebuilt as Tyre and not just a different city but for some reason not named Alexandria, but instead still called Tyre.

CCCyou, those trees in your picture sure look gray, don't they?
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:38 PM
 
Location: USA
193 posts, read 67,326 times
Reputation: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
No it wasn't. Tyre was an island OFF the coast. That is why Alexander had to build a causeway to get at it. What was on the coast was a small residential suburb which wasn't even called Tyre. Tyre proper was the island. It was known as the 'Queen of the Seas.' Read your bible. It tells you that Tyre was an island.
Phoenician Tyre was queen of the seas, an island city of unprecedented splendor.
Tyre
.....
Yes, finally, thank you for affirming that Tyre WAS an ISLAND & fortified walled city - proudly impervious to siege (because it was an island!). But FOREVER no more an Island (thx to Alex filling in a causeway with rubble from OLD TYRE, per your article {and mine- that Neb conquered}),
and FOREVER unable to be rebuilt an island fortified walled city!
NO MORE 'queen of the seas;
No MORE 'island city of unprecedented splendor'.

Prophecy Fulfilled!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Why don't you show us a picture of these 'ruins'. Having been there, I'm pretty sure I know what you are mistaking for the 'ruins of Tyre'. I went on quite a few archaeological tours on my two visits to Tyre and the ruins that can be seen are mainly Greco-Roman, Crusader, Arab, and Byzantine. Most of the remains of the Phoenician period destroyed by Alexander, lie beneath the present town, .....
Got it? Byzantine, Roman and Greco-Roman. Those are your 'ruins' old son.
annnnnd, YES, finally, thank you for affirming that the current flattened ruins (with plenty of room for drying nets) are not a 'rebuilt Tyre' island fortified walled city -
- but stuff built by the subsequent conquering 'many nations',
- and never an island fortified walled city


there may be hope for you yet, 'ol Raf!
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:40 PM
 
Location: USA
193 posts, read 67,326 times
Reputation: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Looks like there was no Genocide or Trail of Tears.
The people of Tyre 30,000 people, stayed on the Island. ..?

Wrong- Raf's article (and mine) ratted you out - quote "[SIZE=2]The town's 30,000 residents were massacred or sold into slavery."...[/SIZE]
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