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Old 09-21-2009, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
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The Tyre prophecy referred to Ezekiel's promise that Nebuchadnezzar would completely destroy Tyre and it would never be rebuilt. Nebby did not destroy Tyre as the prophecy claimed he would...he didnít even capture it. He laid siege to the island city for 13 years before coming to a compromise. As for Tyre never being rebuilt, it is today, the second most populated city in Lebanon.

Why do Christians not consider this 'prophecy' to have failed?
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Old 09-21-2009, 05:38 AM
 
Location: South Africa
1,319 posts, read 1,839,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Why do Christians not consider this 'prophecy' to have failed?
Blackout? Whiteout?
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:23 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,060,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
The Tyre prophecy referred to Ezekiel's promise that Nebuchadnezzar would completely destroy Tyre and it would never be rebuilt. Nebby did not destroy Tyre as the prophecy claimed he would...he didnít even capture it. He laid siege to the island city for 13 years before coming to a compromise. As for Tyre never being rebuilt, it is today, the second most populated city in Lebanon.

Why do Christians not consider this 'prophecy' to have failed?
There's a flattened Tyre joke in there somewhere...
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Old 09-21-2009, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,057 posts, read 30,237,931 times
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That's one problem with prophecies. They refer to events off in the future someplace, and every so often, things don't work out as expected. Another problem has to do with the way prophecies are interpreted by later readers. You can find endless examples of this right here in the Religion forum.

Ezekiel almost certainly believed that Nebuchadnezzar would, in fact, destroy Tyre. Probably Nebuchadnezzar did, too. They were both wrong. That should be the end of the matter...but of course it's not.
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
There's a flattened Tyre joke in there somewhere...
Not bad!!
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:35 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,835,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
The Tyre prophecy referred to Ezekiel's promise that Nebuchadnezzar would completely destroy Tyre and it would never be rebuilt. Nebby did not destroy Tyre as the prophecy claimed he would...he didnít even capture it. He laid siege to the island city for 13 years before coming to a compromise. As for Tyre never being rebuilt, it is today, the second most populated city in Lebanon.

Why do Christians not consider this 'prophecy' to have failed?
While we know the prophecy flopped, was it really a prophecy, when you think about it. Zeke was a contemporary of Nebby. If I recall, Zeke was carted off to Babylon in the second of the three trips Nebby made to Jerusalem (586 BCE happens to be the most notorious of the invasions). As with any person today who has a pulse on world events, Zeke probably paid careful attention to the events of his day and knew of the Babylonian plans to invade and destroy Tyre like he did with Jerusalem. Considering the events, Zeke probably concluded (in colorful language) that Nebby would sack and and lay waste to Tyre and most would have sided with his conclusions. Well Tyre spoiled everyone's expectations. Zeke made a prediction for HIS time and it failed. Hey, we can't all be right, huh?

Not satisfied with going for broke on Tyre, Zeke screwed up on a prediction about Egypt too and that one is even more off.
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Not satisfied with going for broke on Tyre, Zeke screwed up on a prediction about Egypt too and that one is even more off.
A spectacular 'own goal'!!
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:59 AM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
A spectacular 'own goal'!!
You see, if one just admits these guys were just that - guys -thinking they were speaking for god (READ: "crazy"), then none of this would be off issue. When you believe otherwise, you have problems, least of which people think that YOU are just as crazy.
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Old Yesterday, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
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Let's talk about failed prophecies. Any more other than Tyre and Egypt?
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Old Yesterday, 11:06 AM
 
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
The Tyre prophecy referred to Ezekiel's promise that Nebuchadnezzar would completely destroy Tyre and it would never be rebuilt. Nebby did not destroy Tyre as the prophecy claimed he would...he didn’t even capture it. He laid siege to the island city for 13 years before coming to a compromise. As for Tyre never being rebuilt, it is today, the second most populated city in Lebanon.

Why do Christians not consider this 'prophecy' to have failed?

Your interpretation is much flawed; the 'many nations' did indeed destroy tyre


3therefore thus says the Lord GOD: See! I am coming against you, Tyre;
I will churn up against you many nations,
just as the sea churns up its waves.
4They will destroy the walls of Tyre
and tear down its towers;
I will scrape off its debris
and leave it a bare rock.


and...


7Indeed thus says the Lord GOD:
I am bringing up against Tyre
from the north, Nebuchadnezzar,
King of Babylon, king of kings,
with horses and chariots, with cavalry,
and a mighty horde of troops.b
8Your daughter cities on the mainland
he shall slay with the sword.
He shall build a siege wall around you,
throw up a ramp against you,
and raise his shields about you.
9He shall pound your walls with battering-rams
and break down your towers with his axes.

then, back to 'many nations'

12They shall plunder your wealth
and pillage your goods;
They will tear down your walls
and demolish your splendid houses.
Your stones, timbers, and debris
they will cast into the sea.


Ezekiel 26:3-4 + 7-9 + 12




and compiled from (secular) historical records...


"... Regarding the prediction that “many nations” would come against Tyre, the historical records surrounding the illustrious city report such turmoil and war that Ezekiel’s prophecy looks like a mild understatement of the facts. After Nebuchadnezzar’s attack of the city “a period of great depression” plagued the city which was assimilated into the Persian Empire around 538 B.C. (Fleming, p. 47). In 392 B.C., “Tyre was involved in the war which arose between the Persians and Evagorus of Cyprus” in which the king of Egypt “took Tyre by assault” (p. 52). Sixty years later, in 332, Alexander the Great besieged Tyre and crushed it (see below for further elaboration). Soon after this defeat, Ptolemy of Egypt conquered and subjugated Tyre until about 315 B.C. when Atigonus of Syria besieged Tyre for 15 months and captured it (Fleming, p. 65). In fact, Tyre was contested by so many foreign forces that Fleming wrote: “It seemed ever the fate of the Phoenician cities to be between an upper and a nether millstone” (p. 66). Babylon, Syria, Egypt, Rome, Greece, Armenia, and Persia are but a sampling of the “many nations” that had a part in the ultimate destruction of Tyre. Thus, Ezekiel’s prophecy about “many nations” remains as a historical reality that cannot be successfully gainsaid.



Alexander the Great


The historical account of Alexander the Great’s dealings with Tyre adds another important piece to Ezekiel’s prophecy. By 333 B.C., Ezekiel’s prophecy that Tyre would be destroyed and its building material cast into the midst of the waters had yet to materialize. But that situation was soon to be altered. Ancient historian Diodorus Siculus, who lived from approximately 80-20 B.C., wrote extensively of the young Greek conqueror’s dealing with Tyre. It is from his original work that much of the following information on Tyre’s destruction derives (see Siculus, 1963, 17.40-46).

In his dealings with Tyre, Alexander asserted that he wished to make a personal sacrifice in the temple of Heracles on the island city of Tyre. Apparently, because the Tyrians considered their island refuge virtually impregnable, with war machines covering the walls, and rapidly moving water acting as an effective barrier from land attack, they refused his request. Upon receiving their refusal, Alexander immediately set to work on a plan to besiege and conquer the city. He set upon the task of building a land bridge or cause way (Siculus calls it a “mole”) from the mainland city of Tyre to the island city. Siculus stated: “Immediately he demolished what was called Old Tyre and set many tens of thousands of men to work carrying stones to construct a mole” (17.40). Curtius Rufus noted: “Large quantities of rock were available, furnished by old Tyre” (4.2.18). This unprecedented action took the Tyrians by complete surprise. Fleming noted: “In former times the city had shown herself well nigh impregnable. That Alexander’s method of attack was not anticipated is not strange, for there was no precedent for it in the annals of warfare” (p. 56). And yet, even though this action was unprecedented militarily, it was exactly what one might expect from the description of the destruction of Tyre given by Ezekiel hundreds of years prior to Alexander’s actions. The mainland city was demolished and all her stones, timber, and soil were thrown into the midst of the sea.


In spite of the fact that the Tyrians were taken by surprise, they were not disheartened, because they did not believe that Alexander’s efforts would prevail. They continued to maintain supremacy on the sea, and harassed his workers from all sides from boats that were equipped with catapults, slingers, and archers. These tactics were effective in killing many of Alexander’s men. But Alexander was not to be outdone. He gathered his own fleet of ships from nearby cities and was successful in neutralizing the Tyrian vessels’ effectiveness.


With the arrival of Alexander’s sea fleet, the work on the land bridge moved much more rapidly. Yet, when the construction of the bridge was nearing completion, a storm damaged a large section of the mole. Refusing to quit, Alexander rebuilt the damaged structure and continued to move forward. In desperation, the Tyrians sent underwater divers to impede construction by attaching hooks to the rocks and trees of the causeway, causing much damage (Rufus, 4.3.10). Yet, these efforts by the Tyrians could not stop Alexander’s army and eventually the bridge spanned the distance from the mainland city to the island. Huge siege machines bombarded the walls of Tyre. Siculus’ description of the fight is one of the most vivid accounts of a battle in ancient history (17.43-46).
Eventually the Tyrians were defeated, their walls penetrated, and Alexander’s forces entered the city and devastated it. Most of the men of Tyre were killed in continued fighting. Siculus recorded that approximately 2,000 of the men in Tyre who were of military age were crucified, and about 13,000 “non-combatants” were sold into slavery (17.46) [Others estimate the number even higher.] In describing the devastation of the city by Alexander, Fleming wrote: “There was general slaughter in the streets and square. The Macedonians were enraged by the stubborn resistance of the city and especially by the recent murder of some of their countrymen; they therefore showed no mercy. A large part of the city was burned” (p. 63).


The secular, historical record detailing Alexander’s destruction of Tyre coincides precisely with Ezekiel’s prophecy concerning what would happen to its building materials. As Ezekiel had predicted, the stones, timber, and soil of the mainland city were thrown into the midst of the sea in an unprecedented military maneuver. For Ezekiel to have accurately “guessed” this situation would be to stretch the law of probability beyond the limits of absurdity. His acutely accurate representation of the facts remain as outstanding and amazing proof of the divine inspiration behind his message.
..."

excerpt from: Apologetics Press - Tyre in Prophecy



The rest of the article documents the demolished old city of tyre remains completely buried under the sea and sand (flattened as prophesied!) gone forever! SURE, a modern city exists in roughly the same area now, but certainly NOT a 'rebuilt' tyre

Last edited by CCCyou; Yesterday at 11:07 AM.. Reason: sp
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