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Yah done it again, Gplex. Reps not possible right now.
What a fascinating video. His logic, his phraseology (huh???), his inerrant conclusions, including the minimum requirement for a scientist creator, are compelling.
I'd truly love to have this video presented at my wife's church, or for that matter, at any church. With the minister asking all to not cat-call nor cover their ears and close their eyes, but to consider, thoughtfully, carefully and honestly, the content, the logic, the conclusions.
Then, I'd love to hear the individual interpretations. You know, privately, absent the feeding-frenzy, group-hug mentality this videographer notes. I'm willing to bet that there would be many, if not most, of the intellectually honest types who would agree that he made some excellent points.
This is, after all, the 21st Century. Isn't it? (we will get to see, when December, 2012 comes around, how many Americans are hiding in caves, hoarding their precious Pepsi, Dunkin' Donuts and Starbucks Via instant coffee pouches...)
Why my skepticism? I read somewhere this morning that the general American level of education and scientific knowledge is, by a significant margin, the absolute lowest of the developed, Western companies. Lowest. It shows.
Here, on C-D, I'm also willing to bet that the more stubborn YEC types will not even expose themselves to such stuff as this video. They think it's like hugging someone who has the Bubonic Plague. (which science cured, BTW)
So, according to the information you provide here, you believe the earth dates anywhere from 3.8 to 4.2 billion years?
And you believe this to be significant evidence that the Biblical record is false?
Yes indeed, I do.
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So, because other cultures have creation myths and, according to the information you provide here, a few of these pagan myths predate the Old Testament record, this would provide further significant evidence that the Biblical record is false?
Considering the fact that the Christian creation myth appears to be lifted from a conflation of Pagan creation myths, (Pelasgian, Mesopotamian, and the epic of Gilgamesh to name a few--it's uncanny how the Christian Old Testament resembles the Sumerian origin story) yes. Human beings are always trying to explain their existence and the beginning thereof. The writers of the Old Testament were no different and no more deity inspired than any of the other religious storytellers who proceeded them.
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You have also made reference to evolution. Does this mean that you believe life on earth came about by chance and arose from primordial slime?
Evolution does not seek to explain the origins of life on Earth but rather the methodology in which life on Earth adapted and changed over millions of years to achieve symbiosis within environmental conditions that were constantly in flux.
Considering the fact that the Christian creation myth appears to be lifted from a conflation of Pagan creation myths, (Pelasgian, Mesopotamian, and the epic of Gilgamesh to name a few--it's uncanny how the Christian Old Testament resembles the Sumerian origin story) yes. Human beings are always trying to explain their existence and the beginning thereof. The writers of the Old Testament were no different and no more deity inspired than any of the other religious storytellers who proceeded them.
The list of alternative theories as to how the Bible creation account came to be is endless. Perhaps it was copied from ancient space alien visitors.
What would make the evidence for your theory any more compelling?
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Originally Posted by Kele
Evolution does not seek to explain the origins of life on Earth but rather the methodology in which life on Earth adapted and changed over millions of years to achieve symbiosis within environmental conditions that were constantly in flux.
I really don't mean to offend as I'm sure you're a very nice fellow.
One should never argue with fools.
By the way, the two private messages you sent me still remain unread.
Huh? Dates? Musta been waaay before I figured you out. You ignore DM's? How thoughtful of you. Afraid of what you might find?
It is typical of YECrs and fundies to not look at provided links. Your now-admitted behavior appears to be no different, sadly.
As ref's Kele's comments; it is you who conflates Evolution, now proven, with the origins of life, which are only speculative for now. There was noevolvin' going on in the primordial ooze. Only when it was the post-ordial ooze, and life was already there, that the opportunity came for all our ancestors, even yours, to get with the program and expand their horizons and ecoloigcal opportunities! That part's only logical!
No, I didn't say that. I said that I believe that YEC'ers attempt to use the bible to date the Earth, which I personally find rather humorous.
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The list of alternative theories as to how the Bible creation account came to be is endless. Perhaps it was copied from ancient space alien visitors.
What would make the evidence for your theory any more compelling?
Plagiarism of Sumerian creation myths claimed by Old Testament writers as their own and gullible people eat it up for thousands of years afterward. This isn't my theory. There is much written regarding the subject. Perhaps it would behoove you to do a little of your own investigating rather than expecting others to provide you with all the answers.
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Why did you refer to a belief in evolution?
I merely referred to my belief in evolution in context with my occupation. You're the one who insisted on picking up that little ball and running with it, as well as conflating evolution with the origins of life--two completely separate topics of discussion although completely inseparable for you and others who share your beliefs.
No, I didn't say that. I said that I believe that YEC'ers attempt to use the bible to date the Earth, which I personally find rather humorous.
You stated a date that you believe the earth to be. You asserted that this was a reason that you see the Biblical record as false.
This has nothing to do with the YEC'ers.
Why do you believe that your date is reason to discount the Bible?
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Originally Posted by Kele
Plagiarism of Sumerian creation myths claimed by Old Testament writers as their own and gullible people eat it up for thousands of years afterward. This isn't my theory. There is much written regarding the subject. Perhaps it would behoove you to do a little of your own investigating rather than expecting others to provide you with all the answers.
"Perhaps it would behoove you to..."
Yes, believe it or not, I can read and do so quite frequently.
I'm trying to get to the reason that you decided upon your particular world view and you seem to be avoiding me. Could this be due to you not having a reasonable answer?
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Originally Posted by Kele
I merely referred to my belief in evolution in context with my occupation. You're the one who insisted on picking up that little ball and running with it, as well as conflating evolution with the origins of life--two completely separate topics of discussion although completely inseparable for you and others who share your beliefs.
There is no evidence that the earth is 6000 years old, but every evidence that it is many millions of years old. This is where Christian and relition of any kind run into problems, science sees its error and adjusts it theory to expanding knowledge, Christians have to ben expanding knowledge to fit the old tired way of thinking. but small things for small minds wine and crackers anyone?
You stated a date that you believe the earth to be. You asserted that this was a reason that you see the Biblical record as false.
This has nothing to do with the YEC'ers.
Why do you believe that your date is reason to discount the Bible?
Because I choose to believe proven science rather than fairy tales.
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"Perhaps it would behoove you to..."
Yes, believe it or not, I can read and do so quite frequently.
Good, glad to hear it. Perhaps you can do a bit of research on your own rather than asking me to provide you with information regarding the plagiarism of Pagan mythology by the writers of the Old Testament. There is an entire scholarship devoted to the subject.
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I'm trying to get to the reason that you decided upon your particular world view and you seem to be avoiding me. Could this be due to you not having a reasonable answer?
Education is how I came to the realization of my world view. I came out of Plato's cave and I am no longer content to sit on a rock and stare at shadows playing across the back of the cave wall. I have found a wondrous, erudite world--replete with edifying, enlightening knowledge--it stretches out before me infinitely. It is mine for the taking--and I am exploiting that knowledge for all it's worth.
There is your reasonable answer.
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What is it that I believe?
What do you believe? You seem wont to take the antagonist point of view--the direct opposition to scientific theory, or at least, that is how you present yourself. Why would you do so if not for your own belief system? Are you merely confrontational and so you enjoy arguing for argument's sake? You certainly seem to have latched on to my posts as a means to that end.
Yah done it again, Gplex. Reps not possible right now.
What a fascinating video. His logic, his phraseology (huh???), his inerrant conclusions, including the minimum requirement for a scientist creator, are compelling...
I realized what he said in that video about 1/4 way through the bible.
I think we would have far more non-religious if people would just read their own holy books.
There's only one reason that the age of the earth and the universe has been estimated to be somewhere in the range of 6,000 years old and that's the Bible. Centuries ago people set out to determine the age of our world by adding up the ages of biblical figures beginning with Adam and trying to add them all up to arrive at an approximate date. There are many passages that say that so and so begat so and so and they proceed to pretty much list the whole lineage probably right up to the time of Jesus. Young earth creationism bases their beliefs entirely from these ancient calculations.
But does science have any evidence that would back up this belief? It clearly does not. We have evidence from geology, astronomy, paleontology and a wide variety of completely separate sources that all conclusively prove the same thing, the earth and the universe are ancient, many billions of years old. There have been countless examples proving an ancient earth on various threads that often involve such things as geological processes such as seafloor spreading and the movement of tektonic plates, the fact that the light from the oldest objects we can detect from telescopes took about 14 billion years to get to earth, etc.
So my question is this. If you completely disregard the Bible and concentrate only on scientific evidence can anyone present any shred of evidence that the universe is only about 6,000 years old?
The Genesis was re-written by the priest Ezra following their return from the captivity of Babylon; and it is full of many mistakes and lies.
Such lies, fabrications and mistakes which had certainly not been present in the original heavenly book; such lies and mistakes led to the appearance of the anti-religious attitude in Europe and America.
What has been cited in the Quran about the 6 days of the creation:
The heavens and the earth (: the planets including the Earth) were created or transformed from flaming objects into earths with cold crust; such transformation lasted 6000 years:
that sun acquired a crust in 2000 years:
the remaining 4000 years: the crust increased in thickness, the meteorites fell down: the mountains landed on Earth and the rest of planets.
During this 6000 years: the atmosphere of each planet took 2000 years so that the distinct layers of the stratophere or the gaseous layers were established or created.
But a long time elapsed on from the time of such transformation (which lasted 6000 yrs) till now: how long? millions of years: less or more: God only knows.
Then God created man on Earth (and the other planets in the same way.)
This is in the Quran 76: 1
هَلْ أَتَى عَلَى الْإِنسَانِ حِينٌ مِّنَ الدَّهْرِ لَمْ يَكُن شَيْئًا مَّذْكُورًا
The explanation:
(Has there not passed, concerning man, a long period of time [before his creation] when he was not anything mentioned [by angels]?
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