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Old 01-30-2010, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Golden, CO
2,108 posts, read 1,385,409 times
Reputation: 992

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
That is so often where one ends up. Even though the Bible strongly implies that it's faith that matters, not works, one cannot believe that believing something will earn a ticket to hobnobbing with god for eternity while those who did not or could not hold a particular belief are going to burn.

In the end one is forced to say that, apart from not being in any particular religion, and not seeing the sense in worshipping Jesus, one cannot even give the Bible any credence. One may then still have a belief in Deist/Pantheist god, but religion, as such, is shredded, binned and forgotten.
I'm sorry that I never got around to it earlier, but thank you for you comments and posts.

 
Old 01-30-2010, 11:42 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 1,575,695 times
Reputation: 318
Revelation 1:8 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 21:6 - And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment.

Revelation 22:13 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."


Mormons, What do you think Jesus meant when he said "I am the Alpha and the Omega"?
 
Old 01-30-2010, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
14,064 posts, read 9,846,206 times
Reputation: 4713
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
Revelation 1:8 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 21:6 - And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment.

Revelation 22:13 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."


Mormons, What do you think Jesus meant when he said "I am the Alpha and the Omega"?
I believe He meant, "I am eternal." And I am already anticipating the next question.
 
Old 01-31-2010, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 1,983,579 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hueffenhardt View Post
I'll tell you what. If there is a god and he condemns me for not believing in something that the physical evidence demonstrates is false (because I am supposedly trusting in the arm of flesh), then that god is a b*****d, not worthy of respect, and I want nothing to do with him anyway. His priorities are messed up. There are qualities far more important and admirable than believing in something in spite of logic and physical evidence, such as kindness, altruism, being a good parent or friend, honesty, integrity, etc. Possessing those attributes should be the deciding factors that get one into heaven, not faith. Believing despite the physical evidence should be called dumb, and looked down on, because it makes you vulnerable to believe all kinds of false things.

I say again, if a god exists that condemns me for using the brain he supposedly gave me, even though I clothe the naked and feed the hungry, visit the inprisoned, take care of the widow, then I want nothing to do with him. Call me a son of perdition and send me to outer darkness, cause I have no respect for that.
Actually I didn't think that atheists believed that there was any valid physical evidence that God exists or does not exist. But perhaps now that you have been initiated into the society of the godless you would know better.

Now that you have abandoned your faith, even your belief in God, do you feel that it is not only your right but also your duty to mock God and call the one you once knew as your Father in Heaven nasty names? You deny that there is a God but you teach that He is "not worthy of respect" and His "priorities are mixed up?"

It's admirable though to live as Jesus Christ taught we should all live, even if you no longer believe that he suffered and died for your sins and possibly even yet stands at the door arms outstretched, waiting for you to let him enter.
 
Old 01-31-2010, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 1,983,579 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by witty, wise and wicked View Post
Fair enough....
Please note that the quotes in post 466 are messed up. Some appear to be posted by me but were not.
 
Old 01-31-2010, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 1,983,579 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by witty, wise and wicked View Post
Fair enough....and I, too, believe that in him is eternal salvation. But here's another take on to the end:
So one wonders what this “example” is. The one defining act of Christ is his death and resurrection. Christ died for the sins of the world.
“That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.” (2 Cor. 5:19 (ESV)
So tell me, how am I supposed to follow that example again? How am I to “take away the sins of the world” when I have so many sins of my own? Have any Mormons come back to life after three days in the tomb? If not, have they followed Christ’s example to the end? I think not. Christ is not an example, he is the savior of the world. There is a difference.[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
I don't understand what you are getting at. It seems obvious that Jesus Christ worked through the atonement all by himself and does not expect anyone to follow that specific example and attempt to do the same. He does expect us to follow his teachings, which he sums up in the one great commandment that we LOVE one another.
 
Old 01-31-2010, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 1,983,579 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
Revelation 1:8 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 21:6 - And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment.

Revelation 22:13 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

Mormons, What do you think Jesus meant when he said "I am the Alpha and the Omega"?
I can't speak for Mormons but it is the thinking of this one Mormon that Jesus could have meant that as the firstborn spirit child of God the Father made in His image and likeness he was there at the beginning of all things pertaining to God's celestial family. And that as the one chosen to work out the essential atonement for the sins of all mankind he will also be there at the end of that great Plan of Salvation when all of God's children who gained physical bodies are finally resurrected and assigned to a kingdom of glory, or one with no glory.

But my guess is that you understand those quotes differently than you expect Mormons to?
 
Old 01-31-2010, 03:51 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 2,727,313 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
Revelation 1:8 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 21:6 - And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment.

Revelation 22:13 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."


Mormons, What do you think Jesus meant when he said "I am the Alpha and the Omega"?
Well -I'm not a Mormon, but Jesus is "The Living Word, the first [letter] and the last [letter], and every [letter] in between, as God the Word. He is all that ever was, all that is, and all that will ever be; the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
 
Old 01-31-2010, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Golden, CO
2,108 posts, read 1,385,409 times
Reputation: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
Actually I didn't think that atheists believed that there was any valid physical evidence that God exists or does not exist. But perhaps now that you have been initiated into the society of the godless you would know better.

Now that you have abandoned your faith, even your belief in God, do you feel that it is not only your right but also your duty to mock God and call the one you once knew as your Father in Heaven nasty names? You deny that there is a God but you teach that He is "not worthy of respect" and His "priorities are mixed up?"

It's admirable though to live as Jesus Christ taught we should all live, even if you no longer believe that he suffered and died for your sins and possibly even yet stands at the door arms outstretched, waiting for you to let him enter.
When I said, "the physical evidence demonstrates is false" I am talking about Mormonism, not theism. The Book of Abraham is false. The physical evidence demonstrates it. I have been consistent about this. I have repeatedly said that it is impossible to prove that a god does not exist, but the physical evidence does show that Joseph fraudulently produced the Book of Abraham and represented it as a translation of Egyptian scrolls that were supposedly written by the hand of Abraham. He lied about making scripture.

Hey! Did you see the word "If" in my post? I believe there is no god, but IF there is a god and he condemns me for not believing in something (AKA Mormonism) that the physical evidence demonstrates is false (because I am supposedly trusting in the arm of flesh), then that god is a b*****d, not worthy of respect, and I want nothing to do with him anyway.
 
Old 01-31-2010, 06:26 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 2,727,313 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hueffenhardt View Post
When I said, "the physical evidence demonstrates is false" I am talking about Mormonism, not theism. The Book of Abraham is false. The physical evidence demonstrates it. I have been consistent about this. I have repeatedly said that it is impossible to prove that a god does not exist, but the physical evidence does show that Joseph fraudulently produced the Book of Abraham and represented it as a translation of Egyptian scrolls that were supposedly written by the hand of Abraham. He lied about making scripture.

Hey! Did you see the word "If" in my post? I believe there is no god, but IF there is a god and he condemns me for not believing in something (AKA Mormonism) that the physical evidence demonstrates is false (because I am supposedly trusting in the arm of flesh), then that god is a b*****d, not worthy of respect, and I want nothing to do with him anyway.
The Joe Smith "book of Abraham" being false is enough, alone, to make any reasonable person reject the Mormon religion.

But for the interested, Abraham did write. Bits of his writings are to be read in the Genesis Apocryphon discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Nothing Abraham wrote, in any manner, contradicts anything Moses recorded about his life [and Moses had all the writings of the Patriarchs, to refer to], and it certainly refutes all that Mormon doctrine teaches.

Qumran - Genesis Apocryphon Genesis Apocryphon frm DSS.

TRANSLATION OF 1Q GENESIS APOCRYPHON
Translation of 1Q Genesis Apocryphon (1QapGen)
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