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Old 02-04-2010, 01:28 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 2,770,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
In the end it is going to be down to the individual to decide whether they believe the translations of egyptologists or of Mormons. I just think that it is important to put both sides, or all sides rather than just one side.
However, when you have representations of 'Pharaoh' in all sorts of context shoing that it is really a goddess and when you get parallel translations of Egyptian into demotic and greek (I suppose you at least suppose we can translate greek, correctly) how can you reasonably say that Egyptologists are wrong and Smith's translation is right?



Allright, I'll play it your way. If eternal salivation is important to you, isn't it important that you have the right religion rather that some faked up distortion of it? Shouldn't be pretty damn' sure that you have good reason to stick to LDS when there is so much evidence that it was all faked up by Joseph Smith? You'd better be sure you got it right.



An open mind is looking at all the factors, not just accepting it on Blind faith. The fact is that there is so much support for Egyptian now being understood - you can get checks from parallel texts, even Coptic, still spoken today. When the Abraham fragments are so wildly variant in both visual imagery and text -and remember, Smith knew nothing about Egyptian, it has to be supposed that it was all inspired - objectivity has to come down on the side of Egyptology. What you are doing is denial. have you even tried to find out for yourself why Egyptian can be taken as well and truly translatable?



You know nothing of the kind. This is blind faith based on a refusal to look at the evidence - that Smith was a faker, a manipulator, a deceiver and demonstrably so and LDS is in denial about it to this day.
Justamere is claiming. in his refusal to look at the evidence, that Joe Smith was an "Egyptologist"!!!, and so he believes the Egyptologist, Joe Smith, and not the Egyptologists who actually can translate ancient Egyptian [mainly] because of the "Rosetta Stone", which was discovered before Joe Smith lied his false book of Abraham into being, using an Egyptian burial document he had in his possession.

 
Old 02-05-2010, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 2,008,276 times
Reputation: 221
Default Latter-day Saints are Christians.

Lest there still be some who are confused about us because of the teachings of paid professional clergy who perhaps feel that their living would be threatened should their members learn the truth about Mormons, or because they've been deceived by the lucrative anti-Mormon publishing industry, let me assure you that Latter-day Saints are Christians! Though, like every other Christian denomination, we don't accept every scholar's (or devotee's) worldview and interpretation of verses from the books of the bible.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has always accepted Jesus of Nazareth as testified of in the Bible: the divine Redeemer and Son of God who atoned for the sins of all mankind and ensured our universal resurrection. The church has never ceased to affirm that there is no other name given whereby man can be saved. (see Acts 4:12)

Another book that the LDS Church reveres as scripture, the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ, declares on its title page that it was written "to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations."

In LDS belief, Joseph Smith is the prophet through whom God restored the Church of Christ and named it the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He stated that "the fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it."

Members of the restored Church of Jesus Christ gratefully rejoice in Christ's atonement, confidently anticipate his glorious return, expect to be brought before him when he judges the entire human race, and hope to dwell with him for all eternity. Surely all who profess such beliefs can lay claim to being called Christians.

Obviously there are doctrinal differences between Mormons and people of a variety of other Christian denominations. But Latter-day Saints believe that it must be possible for people to have different points of view and still be Christians. Given the large number of Christian denominations, all of whom disagree on points large and small, this conclusion is inescapable.

Latter-day Saints embrace as fellow Christians those who profess faith in Jesus Christ. In the same vein, they believe that no doctrinal difference or variation in practice can loom so large as to cancel out their own sincere belief in and commitment to Jesus Christ as Lord and Redeemer...

Read the entire article:

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=45&chapid=530



"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." 11th Article of Faith

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/a_of_f/1
 
Old 02-05-2010, 12:56 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 2,770,504 times
Reputation: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
Lest there still be some who are confused about us because of the teachings of paid professional clergy who perhaps feel that their living would be threatened should their members learn the truth about Mormons, or because they've been deceived by the lucrative anti-Mormon publishing industry, let me assure you that Latter-day Saints are Christians!
I do not believe that Mormons are Christians, in the Bible definition of being born of Christ's One Living Spirit. There is no way they can have the power to call Jesus LORD, though they may cry lord, indeed, because they have another spirit, another jesus, another gospel, than the One Living spirit who only testifies of Jesus Christ.

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The spirit Mormons get testifies to a dead book filled with falsehoods contradicting the Holy bible, and is racist in its doctrine about their Mormon god cursing all people who have less than "pure/white" skin -and the Mormon god invention is only a human being, exalted to being a "stud" in Mormon heaven, anyway.

The Mormon gospel is from another spirit, is another gospel than the Gospel of Christ, and presents another Jesus, than the Holy Spirit Witnesses to,
and the so called angel Moroni and Joe Smith who preached it are accursed for it, says the Word of God.Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

And do you want to get into how many billions your Mormon leaders rake in from the willing slave classes below them, and how richly they live, like royalty on earth, by the Mormon slave classes blindly allowing their wages to support lavish lifestyles of their top men, that would put Nancy Pelosi to envy! -indeed!


12:3 -...and that no man can [[SIZE=2]to be able, to have power/authority][/SIZE] (5736) say (5629) that Jesus [is their] Lord, but/except by/en/with the Holy Ghost.Mat 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not..... in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become thesons of God , [even] to them that believe on his name:


2Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]. Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

So Moroni brought "another gospel", and Joe Smith taught a changeling Jesus, "another Jesus", and Mormons get "another spirit" who "testifies" to them -they claim- accursed doctrines brought by "an angel and a man"; but the Holy Spirit only testifies to Jesus the Christ of the Holy Bible.


Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 02-05-2010 at 01:12 PM..
 
Old 02-05-2010, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
11,328 posts, read 10,139,068 times
Reputation: 10450
So why do haters always call Mr. Smith "Joe" and members always "Joseph"? What did people call him in real life, and why does it seem to matter?
 
Old 02-05-2010, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
14,119 posts, read 10,089,601 times
Reputation: 4779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
So why do haters always call Mr. Smith "Joe" and members always "Joseph"? What did people call him in real life, and why does it seem to matter?
His contemporaries called him "Joseph." For some reason, some people seem to think that using the abbreviated form, "Joe," is another good way to demean him. I'm not sure why. A lot of people are named "Joseph" and go by "Joe." I guess some of these anti-Mormons just figure that the end justifies the means and if you can demean someone by calling him by a nickname, why not do it?
 
Old 02-05-2010, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 2,008,276 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
And do you want to get into how many billions your Mormon leaders rake in from the willing slave classes below them, and how richly they live, like royalty on earth, by the Mormon slave classes blindly allowing their wages to support lavish lifestyles of their top men, that would put Nancy Pelosi to envy! -indeed!
As usual you display your complete and utter ignorance about the Latter-day Saints whom you seem to fear or hate, or maybe both. But ok, I don't think I've heard that one before so please provide valid evidence that the Lord's living Apostles live "lavish lifestyles" at the expense of members of the LDS Church.

(My invitation is to respond to that one charge only, I'm not at all interested in your other grossly ignorant (about the Latter-day Saints) and in my opinion extremely bigoted and groundless rantings about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its members, and our religious beliefs and practices.)

Last edited by justamere10; 02-05-2010 at 02:51 PM..
 
Old 02-05-2010, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 2,008,276 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
So why do haters always call Mr. Smith "Joe" and members always "Joseph"? What did people call him in real life, and why does it seem to matter?
I think Joseph Smith's preference when among the Saints was to be called "Brother Joseph." It is common even to this day for the Saints when gathered together to call one another "brother" or "sister" though first names are probably more frequently used in densely populated areas such as Utah. (It is also common amongst us to shake hands.)

As a faithful member of the LDS Church I have great respect for Joseph Smith whom I consider to be God's chosen Prophet of the Restoration and on a par with other prophet leaders such as Moses and Elijah who came to Joseph Smith as resurrected beings to restore keys and authority they held anciently. So I always use his full name "Joseph" when speaking of or writing about him. But those who choose to demonstrate disrespect for him commonly use the name "Joe."
 
Old 02-05-2010, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
11,328 posts, read 10,139,068 times
Reputation: 10450
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
I think Joseph Smith's preference when among the Saints was to be called "Brother Joseph." It is common even to this day for the Saints when gathered together to call one another "brother" or "sister" though first names are probably more frequently used in densely populated areas such as Utah. (It is also common amongst us to shake hands.)

As a faithful member of the LDS Church I have great respect for Joseph Smith whom I consider to be God's chosen Prophet of the Restoration and on a par with other prophet leaders such as Moses and Elijah who came to Joseph Smith as resurrected beings to restore keys and authority they held anciently. So I always use his full name "Joseph" when speaking of or writing about him. But those who choose to demonstrate disrespect for him commonly use the name "Joe."
I don't know, I could picture brother Brigham pulling up in a low rider wagon and shouting: "Ho, Bro Joe, how's it hangin', yo?!"
 
Old 02-05-2010, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
14,119 posts, read 10,089,601 times
Reputation: 4779
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
As usual you display your complete and utter ignorance about the Latter-day Saints whom you seem to fear or hate, or maybe both. But ok, I don't think I've heard that one before so please provide valid evidence that the Lord's living Apostles live "lavish lifestyles" at the expense of members of the LDS Church.
You've asked the impossible, justamere. It's impossible to provide "valid evidence" for a lie. I'm sure JSM will try, though. After all, it doesn't matter to her in the slightest whether she speaks the truth or not. Somehow, she thinks the commandment not to bear false witness against your neighbor doesn't apply to her (particularly if your neighbor happens to be LDS). Not to worry, though... nobody on this forum takes her seriously. She probably does us more good than harm.
 
Old 02-05-2010, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Utah
79 posts, read 51,784 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
And do you want to get into how many billions your Mormon leaders rake in from the willing slave classes below them, and how richly they live, like royalty on earth, by the Mormon slave classes blindly allowing their wages to support lavish lifestyles of their top men, that would put Nancy Pelosi to envy! -indeed!
Thomas S. Monson (the current Prophet) lives in this house:


That house certainly fits his "lavish lifestyle"

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