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Old 02-09-2010, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 5,505,664 times
Reputation: 836

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Quote:
Absolutely true. To write "historical" novels of places which do not exist one has to invent worlds that do not exist, for those places, as C.S.Lewis did.
Don't be disingenuous, you I assume could tell very plainly that the authors I mentioned did not write fantasy.



 
Old 02-09-2010, 04:40 PM
 
97 posts, read 120,215 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
He's only included in the list of false prophets, and his angelic vision is included in those accursed who bring another Gospel and another Jesus, by another spirit.

But as for Jesus Christ, He is God's last Word to mankind:
Hbr 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

And His last book to mankind is the Revelation of Himself given to John to write:

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John: Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Rev 1:3 Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand. Rev 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping for a response from the other side. I know God shows and prophesies clearly in his word of Christ, So I am wondering where he prophesies Joseph Smith?
 
Old 02-09-2010, 04:46 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 5,441,889 times
Reputation: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Don't be disingenuous, you I assume could tell very plainly that the authors I mentioned did not write fantasy.
Quote:
Not true at all, good authors are sticklers for detail. If I read a novel by Ernest Hemmingway, or Ken Follett, or Louie L'Amour, or Tony Hillerman to name just four, if they state a hill is there, it is. If they state a river is there, it is, less a particular location needs to be tweaked for the story line.

I was agreeing with your excellent post on historical fiction -like Louis L'Amour wrote- because I am well aware that the places are there, though the characters are fiction.
The book of Mormon claims to be historical but is pure fiction, with no identifying places to be found at all, as can be found in the fiction writers you mentioned; and as can be found from reading the Bible, or as can be from reading the Book of Jasher which I mentioned.

Gracious, we just watched a 1952 movie called "The Treasure of Lost Canyon", and they used a park for the story with a waterfall which my husband was at on a motor cycle trip with our daughter and her husband and others, only last year. The story was fiction, but the place was real.
 
Old 02-09-2010, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 5,505,664 times
Reputation: 836
I understand now what point you were trying get across. I do not read fantasy or science fiction, my mind does not like made up landscapes, however, as regards the Book of Mormon, I will do my best to read it, and if I have questions of fact, I will ask them. If a responder points me off to another site, I assume they cannot answer the question. If one is a member of a group, but cannot explain the leading text of the group, I got concerns.

At this point, without having read the Book of Mormon my opinion of it does not differ in detail from my opinion of the Bible. That could change, good Mormons would provide data to answer my questions, it is in their interest to do so.

If as the Mormon poster stated, one needs to suspend their critical thinking skills to believe the B of M, there is a problem
 
Old 02-09-2010, 05:20 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 5,441,889 times
Reputation: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by imbobbbb View Post
If I dont care 'where my mormon tithes go' why do you?
Well, the "Teaching of the Twelve Apostles to the Gentiles" -the Didache, which Peter made sure to leave before his demise, as he promised - [and which is enlarged and included in the Canon list of the Ethiopian Bible], warns the followers of Jesus Christ to never give blindly, because they who follow Jesus are responsible before God for what they give.
Sirach -Ecclesiasticus/Wisdom [one of the Deuterocanoical books] also warns the same about giving without accountability.

Since you blindly and willfully follow "fallible men", you are free to blindly throw your earnings their way, and to fall into the ditch with them -with all my blessings on you for doing such.

But there may be others who want to know where the money goes that they yield up to the Mormon organization by its demands.
It was considered by Baruch, Barnabas, and the Didache, to be unwise to "give" blindly.





2Pe 1:15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.
 
Old 02-09-2010, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 3,369,311 times
Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortisha View Post
Because I can and because it is another view on Mormonism and all relgion. Why not consider a completley different take on a religion?
Expressing and expecting a discussion about the views of atheists in this forum is not exactly "a completely different take on religion" and is not at all on topic with the title of this thread. But I think you'd find that many of the threads in the atheist forum discuss the atheist point of view regarding religion, and you are always free to start your own thread on the topic in any of the forums.
 
Old 02-09-2010, 05:33 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 5,441,889 times
Reputation: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
...as regards the Book of Mormon, I will do my best to read it, and if I have questions of fact, I will ask them. If a responder points me off to another site, I assume they cannot answer the question. If one is a member of a group, but cannot explain the leading text of the group, I got concerns.

...

If as the Mormon poster stated, one needs to suspend their critical thinking skills to believe the B of M, there is a problem
I noticed that the person who made the OP is not able to give logical reasons for his belief in Mormonism, but proselytizes here -like a Mormon at the web door, always- by linking to others' opinions in favor of Mormon doctrines.
 
Old 02-09-2010, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 3,369,311 times
Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
I understand now what point you were trying get across. I do not read fantasy or science fiction, my mind does not like made up landscapes, however, as regards the Book of Mormon, I will do my best to read it, and if I have questions of fact, I will ask them. If a responder points me off to another site, I assume they cannot answer the question. If one is a member of a group, but cannot explain the leading text of the group, I got concerns.

At this point, without having read the Book of Mormon my opinion of it does not differ in detail from my opinion of the Bible. That could change, good Mormons would provide data to answer my questions, it is in their interest to do so.

If as the Mormon poster stated, one needs to suspend their critical thinking skills to believe the B of M, there is a problem
And you expected me to know where near Jerusalem today is a river that somebody named "Laman" 2,600 years ago?

I did provide you with data to "answer your questions" being links to an abundance of information which you could have researched yourself if it means so much to you. (And it took me some time to find those links as well.)

I'm doing my best here to respond to honest sincere comments and questions about Mormonism, but as I see it there is a responsibity on the part of non-Mormons too to stick as best they can to the topic and intention of this thread. Lately that seems to be lacking with all the groundless sometimes nonsensical (in my opinion) attacks we're getting from one person in particular. It's easy enough to ignore that writer, as I think most people do, but it sure clutters up and distracts from an otherwise useful thread.

Sorry Clarks but I just don't have the time or the inclination to do your research for you, especially when it comes to things that have nothing to do with spirituality, salvation, or the religious beliefs and practices of faithful Latter-day Saints.
 
Old 02-09-2010, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 3,369,311 times
Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by byebyeducky View Post
Thanks for the reply. I was hoping for a response from the other side. I know God shows and prophesies clearly in his word of Christ, So I am wondering where he prophesies Joseph Smith?
In the few books scholars chose from among many available to put in today's bible, there are prophecies regarding many things to occur in the last days. And when a new dispensation of time opens up, a prophet leader can logically be assumed to head it. We are now in the final dispensation, the "fulness of times."

"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:" Ephesians 1: 10

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/eph/1/10#10


Yes, there are many prophecies in the bible of Christ and the atoning sacrifice he would make. But are there prophecies before their time and naming them by name of the future coming of prophets such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Enoch, Moses, Elijah, etc. etc.? Why should you expect to find in the bible the words "Joseph Smith" who would not appear on the scene until the 1800's?


By the way, Mormons do not worship Joseph Smith or any other prophet and do not consider him infallible, just in case you were wondering.
 
Old 02-09-2010, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 5,505,664 times
Reputation: 836
Quote:
Sorry Clarks but I just don't have the time or the inclination to do your research for you, especially when it comes to things that have nothing to do with spirituality, salvation, or the religious beliefs and practices of faithful Latter-day Saints.
So questions that a first time reader has would, I think be questions that any Mormon would have seen and have an answer for, that is what the equivalent of Bible Study would spend a little time on.

I am not interested in "being pointed in the right direction" I asked a question of fact that can either be answered or not. Apparently the answer is not. So, in my seeking for the Truth in Mormonism, the very first questions I ask cannot be answered?

So, what happens when I get to questions of faith?

Apparently you are not the person who should be responding to my posts, I need a higher pay grade.
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