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What is a "christian" as it is written in the Bible, not in any books outside the Bible,but in the Bible?
And why does a religion arise using the Bible terms with completely different meanings which are not explained to those they wish to seduce into their religion? The terms are used as if they are the same things, but they are not at all the same things, and they are purposely deceiving the gullible.
Why not just admit no connection to the Jesus Christ of the Bible when one invents a completely different Jesus with no connection in any shape, manner, or form, to the Jesus Christ of the Word of God?
Why claim to be of him whom you deny? That is an honest question, and it has an obvious answer.
Jesus Christ of the Bible is not another god, but is God, YHWH, come in flesh. He is not a sexually begotten spirit son of a man-god in heaven who has a man-goddess wife, who themselves were once born as normal human beings and were themselves, first, sex begotten spirit children of their own Mormon god and goddess in their heaven, who were "exalted to god-hood" so as to be married and have sex and children forever and forever in the Mormon heavens.
The Mormon god is just a man, married, who is "made a god", one of many billions of other Mormon gods, and they are all married men who have sexual unions forever with their wives, and they have offspring by sexual union, to the numbers of billions and billions and billions and billions... .
The Mormon Jesus is just a sexually begotten "spirit brother" to satan, and to all human beings on this earth, and he has uncles and grandfathers and great grandfathers, etc, who are all Mormon gods with their own goddess wives, and who have their own worlds to populate.
...Jesus Christ of the Bible is not another god, but is God, YHWH, come in flesh. He is not a sexually begotten spirit son of a man-god in heaven who has a man-goddess wife, who themselves were once born as normal human beings and were themselves, first, sex begotten spirit children of their own Mormon god and goddess in their heaven, who were "exalted to god-hood" so as to be married and have sex and children forever and forever in the Mormon heavens.
The Mormon god is just a man, married, who is "made a god", and has sex with his wife/wives, and has offspring by sexual union, to the numbers of billions and billions NSand billions and billions... .
The Mormon Jesus is just a sexually begotten "spirit brother" to satan, and to all human beings on this earth!
Like probably most others on this board I do not read your angry uninformed railing rants against the Saints YSM, but in my opinion you need some serious counseling.
(It might come as a shock to you but most people actually enjoy having sexual relations with their spouse and think that is normal, healthy, and good. It also helps fulfill God's commandment to multiply and replenish the earth!)
That's another one straight from the anti-Mormon websites and maybe still popular, they don't have much else to cling to and certainly nothing new that might validly apply to today's crop of Latter-day Saints. But as usual, it was long ago soundly refuted as something with which to put down the Latter-day Saints though it did at the time it happened cause quite a stir and some apostasy when the bank failed, as were other banks failing all around at the time.
Here's the start of one of many scholarly articles on that long ago worn out subject driven by people wanting desperately to discredit Joseph Smith and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and mislead or deceive people about them.
"The Kirtland Safety Society Anti-Banking Company is an important part of our church history, having, as it did, a significant role in the Kirtland apostasy. Yet, to date, it has received much more attention from anti-Mormons, or "the other guys", than from our own scholars and apologists. As a result, there are a large number of myths about the Safety Society that the other guys use to criticize Joseph Smith and destroy faith.
Today, I'm going to lay the episode wide open. We'll see the myths that have sprung from the creative minds of interested parties, the facts will be laid bare, and in doing so, we'll see why the Prophet deserves a good name...."
"...So did Joseph Smith ruin the Safety Society? No. It was a coordinated attack by Church enemies, and fraud by the apostate Warren Parrish.
And that's it. The myths are gone. Poof. There's nothing to cover up, nothing to hide, nothing to be embarrassed about.
The Safety Society was in no way a wildcat bank. Everyone knew where the bank was and who its officers were. It was also legal.
Joseph Smith was a true prophet. The only revelation he had about the Safety Society was fulfilled—that it could not succeed unless managed based on the principles of righteousness.
The Safety Society was an honest endeavour for which Joseph Smith sacrificed greatly to help it succeed.
It was not bungled up or mismanaged by Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon; they were prudent in what they did. Its failure was the work of antagonists and an apostate.
And those are the facts about the Safety Society."
I didn't expect you to admit to the KSS fiasco. The Kirtland Safety Society was a quasi-bank organized in 1836, however, by November 1837, KSS failed and its business closed. In the aftermath, Mormon leader Joseph Smith was fined for running an illegal bank, many bankrupted Mormons left the church because they believed Smith had established the bank in order to enrich himself and the Mormon leadership, and Smith and his associates fled to Missouri.
The only places I find that agree with your take on the matter are Mormon apologetic sites. Am I to suppose all the other historic sites have it wrong?
These two items do not seem like the actions of honest men to me....
October 1837
Joseph and Sidney found guilty at trial of illegal banking and issuing unauthorized bank paper currency (a civil, not criminal offense). They are fined $1,000 each, and appeal.
12 January 1838
Joseph Smith, having returned to Kirtland, leaves with Sidney Rigdon to escape the risk of prison and mob action
Ok, the old 'my expert is bigger than your expert' game again?
But what is your point?
You're an atheist aren't you? Even if someone connected with a church was found guilty of a civil offense almost 200 years ago as apparently your expert claims, of what interest should that be to you or members of this board? Do you also dig into what some Catholics or Methodists did 200 years ago, or members of other denominations that are at least that old? Are you fascinated with such trivia?
Like probably most others on this board I do not read your angry uninformed railing rants against the Saints YSM, but in my opinion you need some serious counseling.
(It might come as a shock to you but most people actually enjoy having sexual relations with their spouse and think that is normal, healthy, and good. It also helps fulfill God's commandment to multiply and replenish the earth!)
YHWH does not have sex and is not a glorified married man. That is the point, and apparently Joseph Smith thought he could seduce men and women into believing they could have sex forever, as Mormon gods, because he wanted to have sex with other women than his wife, while he was founding the Mormon religion.
God created Adam as male and female, because He sought sons of God by their sexual union [Malachi 2:15], as male and female, with the created seed in the loins of the male Adam implanted in the womb of the female, who was made the "mother" of all the living seed which was created in the loins of Adam. -the seed died as sons of God in the fall, and God gets His sons by adoption into the New Man Living spirit and name, now, [and the adoption pertains to Israel].
But you claim that your god is a married man, exalted to have sex with his wives forever, so as to have children, forever, and from forever Mormon men-gods have got married and had sex with wives in Mormon heavens..
But when YHWH created Adam as male and female, and told him to fill the earth, He had a plan for the number of multiplied seed the earth would be filled with, before the fall; for that number made the "house"/temple not made with hands, called "human being" for the Glory of the UNSEEN YHWH to indwell, as His own human being house.
There would have been an end to sexual union for Adam, when the number was filled, and there will still be, for that is what circumcision on the eighth day signs in the Living Oracles, for when the heavens and the earth are regenerated, Adam will cut off from multiplying, forever, and God gets His sons to dwell in, by the adopted/born again in Christ seed of Adam.
It's kind of hard (i.e. impossible) to comment on your points when you don't use the quote function. Also, the way you've done this, it looks like you're quoting me when the words are really yours. It's going to be kind of confusing for people.
Sorry, I will try to respond differently in the future. I really don't see it as impossible, but then, I know nothing is impossible with God!
I am rather new to the forum so I will try to figure it out.
Ok, the old 'my expert is bigger than your expert' game again?
But what is your point?
You're an atheist aren't you? Even if someone connected with a church was found guilty of a civil offense almost 200 years ago as apparently your expert claims, of what interest should that be to you or members of this board? Do you also dig into what some Catholics or Methodists did 200 years ago, or members of other denominations that are at least that old? Are you fascinated with such trivia?
The point is that the founder of Mormonism, who wrote books claiming that he was a prophet of god by putting words in the mouth of his god in his books, was a criminal. The religion he founded is not of God, but is of Joseph Smith, because Joseph Smith was just an old Adam sinner, who was never converted to the second birth of Spirit and never knew Jesus Christ, whose command is to never lie, cheat, commit adultery, or steal, nor to worship alien gods.
Joseph Smith broke all those commands of Jesus Christ.
Lots of good discussion today on the nature of God and the Godhead. For anyone who is interested this is a link for a talk given by the beloved late President and Prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - Gordon B. Hinkley.
It outlines clearly the mormon perspective on God the father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit as declared in the First Article of Faith -
“We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost”
Ok, the old 'my expert is bigger than your expert' game again?
But what is your point?
You're an atheist aren't you? Even if someone connected with a church was found guilty of a civil offense almost 200 years ago as apparently your expert claims, of what interest should that be to you or members of this board? Do you also dig into what some Catholics or Methodists did 200 years ago, or members of other denominations that are at least that old? Are you fascinated with such trivia?
Yes I am an atheist, but that has nothing to do with the facts. I am fascinated by the distortions to the truth that apologetic sites, of all faiths manage to get away with simply to whitewash the truth. By the way the snippet below came from a Mormon apologetic site. (One of your experts)
Quote:
October 1837
Joseph and Sidney found guilty at trial of illegal banking and issuing unauthorized bank paper currency (a civil, not criminal offense). They are fined $1,000 each, and appeal.
Of course you can interpret my remarks any way you want to, but no, it was not my intention to say that "honest investigation into the evidence" should be avoided. What I am trying to convey is that huge numbers of legitimate scholars who have done that "honest investigation" your way have concluded that the so-called "evidence" from anti-Mormon media in almost or perhaps every instance is arbitrary, easily refuted with other evidence, dubious, inconclusive, or downright bogus.
Are they really doing honest research, or do they come to this conclusion because :
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
the Saints know that the brain is "an enemy" to God and spirituality.
What you think you're saying about your religious beliefs are far different from what you're actually telling us. You keep telling people they can't rely on rational thinking to make the right decision - don't be surprised if people think you're claiming that the basis of your belief is irrational. And if you think that's a bad thing, why continue to appeal to irrational processes for finding truth :
Quote:
Tried humble and sincere prayer lately? (Nothing "touchy-feely" about that, it's YOU who relies on your fingers and the flesh to define your world, no wonder you can't find God!)
Yes, and it tells me you are wrong to follow the LDS church. Ready to convert? No? Then you understand just how persuasive the results of "humble prayer" really are.
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