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Old 10-05-2009, 08:55 PM
 
Location: United States
2,497 posts, read 7,476,584 times
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OP- Congratulations! You have broke the chains!

Think for yourself. Only you really know you. And yes I agree that most organized religion is nothing more than mass groups all confused and decided to settle on the same thing. All the while smashing and/or belittling anyone who gets in their way or opposes their beliefs. Religion can be dangerous, ask Waco TX.
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,229 posts, read 16,297,759 times
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If you're ever up for the challenge, lilred0005, get yourself a copy of The Urantia Book and allow plenty of time. It's very hard-reading. But the author is unknown and you would be highly amazed and impressed. I was shocked to read that "it's" explanation of God so closely matched my own.

And, no, there is no "religion" associated with it.

Personally, I think ALL religions have faults, and perhaps that's why I currently do not belong to one. But I definitely believe in deities, and purpose, and destiny.
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Old 10-06-2009, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,855,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilred0005 View Post
....... it is hard to walk away from Jesus after a whole lifetime, but I absolutely feel the Bible is only a group of myths used to corral the masses, to implement control.
If you feel this about the Bible then you should feel the same about Jesus, as the Bible is the only place we find this Jesus. Jesus is the 'stick' used to corral the masses.
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Old 10-06-2009, 12:55 AM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,969,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilred0005 View Post
After years of difficult soul searching, I have decided to end my relationship with organized religion, specifically Christianity. I believe in God, whether it be an entity or entities, or a natural force, with all my heart and soul. I would be a lost soul without my faith, however, I do not feel I can obtain spiritual fufilment(sp?) by following blindly organized religion. My disillusionment with Christianity was painful at first, but now that I have accepted it, I feel free. My main issues with Christianity are as follows: I can't follow a group that thinks it knows, or has figured out everything about life and the divine. I don't believe there is "one true Faith" and "one true" spiritual path. I can't deal with a group that is so obviously misogynistic and had no room for women. I don't believe the Bible came directly from God and that it should be taken literally. The Bible was obviously written by powerful, educated men who used it as a tool to manipulate and keep the uneducated masses in line. I can't deal with a religion that views mankind(especially women) as inherently evil(sin) and weak, slaves to their base natures. Finally(I could go on but you get the major points), I don't believe that ONLY Christians will be saved and that everyone else, no matter how good, pious, and selfless, will BURN, or that the only way to salvation is to declare alliegence to Jesus. Those "saved" ppl can now never lift a finger to help others because "good works won't get you into Heaven" and no matter what they have done in the past(child rape, et al), all is forgiven but the Pagan/Hindi/Buddist who helps his fellows and is moral is condemned for Eternity. These are the major reasons why I can no longer call myself a Christian. If I BURN, so be it ; I followed my heart. ...lil red...... Btw, I am very sorry for the single paragraph. My PDA removes all the paragraph spaces. Thank you.
If the Bible was a Book that was only written by men, why are all of it's prophecies true? I don't know anyone who can know the future, only such knowledge could come from God. When your behind a keyboard, it's easy to say if I burn so be it. Yet the reality of such a fate would not be taken so lightly. I would suggest you look at those prophecies a little closer, and then deicide if man alone wrote the Bible.
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:00 AM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,969,770 times
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Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
If you feel this about the Bible then you should feel the same about Jesus, as the Bible is the only place we find this Jesus. Jesus is the 'stick' used to corral the masses.
Now Rafius, you know very well we have historical accounts that speak of Jesus. And those accounts are believed by the vast majority of scholars.
So why do you keep saying the Bible is the only place we find Jesus?
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:18 AM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 4,165,053 times
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C34 nice to see you back! Thought you might have been banned...
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:23 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,855,009 times
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Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
If the Bible was a Book that was only written by men, why are all of it's prophecies true?
They aren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Now Rafius, you know very well we have historical accounts that speak of Jesus.
No we don't. We have accounts of Christians who believed in a Jesus. Vast difference!
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:14 AM
 
16 posts, read 47,955 times
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This is my main beef with organized religion most teach tithing which IMHO confuses the gospel by mixing in legalism. Don't be a sheeple (People who blindly follow) study for yourself. I truly believe if one searches for the truth for TRUTH'S sake he will find Jesus.

Here are all references where tithing is mentioned in the NT, not once AFTER Jesus fulfilled the law is there a positive word said about the practice. If it were so important surely it would have been taught in a more possitive light. Even when it is taught it is in the context of self rightiousness of the scribes and pharisees.

Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Lu 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Lu 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

I would liken teaching tithing to taking you out to a restaraunt and being called away early in the meal getting up and paying for the meal and leaving...then when you had finished your meal the manager of the establishment coming to you as you are about to leave demanding payment for the meal...you surely are abliged to leave a tip but the meal had already been paid for as winessed by al the other patrons. A tip is just that a gratuity given out of respect for good service rendered. A tip is generally expected in many situations but nobody ever went to jail for not leaving a tip. If tithing is so important why is it the majority of the church does not practice it? I do not think the majority of the church steals or lies on a regular basis.

Tithing is OT Levitical law which was fulfilled when Christ died on the cross (it is finished):

1 ¶ For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
11 ¶ If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Legalistic folk persecute people living in liberty:

21 ¶ Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
1 ¶ Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
13 ¶ For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:39 AM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,084 posts, read 14,859,942 times
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Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
Yeah I've wondered this too....personal relationship...hmmm...curious phrase isn't it? Like as opposed to an impersonal relationship? What? How can one have a relationship with someone that doesn't respond or answer you when you speak?
Well, I suspect that would be "imaginary" christers are particularly adept at this sort of thing.
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:41 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,382,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
If the Bible was a Book that was only written by men, why are all of it's prophecies true? I don't know anyone who can know the future, only such knowledge could come from God. When your behind a keyboard, it's easy to say if I burn so be it. Yet the reality of such a fate would not be taken so lightly. I would suggest you look at those prophecies a little closer, and then deicide if man alone wrote the Bible.
You ever see the movie "Knowing"?

How did all of those prophecies come true at the end of the movie, that were prophesized at the beginning?

Oh yeah, because it was written by the same people, duh.
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