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Old 10-06-2009, 04:53 AM
 
Location: PA
2,595 posts, read 4,433,800 times
Reputation: 473

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilred0005 View Post
After years of difficult soul searching, I have decided to end my relationship with organized religion, specifically Christianity. I believe in God, whether it be an entity or entities, or a natural force, with all my heart and soul. I would be a lost soul without my faith, however, I do not feel I can obtain spiritual fufilment(sp?) by following blindly organized religion. My disillusionment with Christianity was painful at first, but now that I have accepted it, I feel free. My main issues with Christianity are as follows: I can't follow a group that thinks it knows, or has figured out everything about life and the divine. I don't believe there is "one true Faith" and "one true" spiritual path. I can't deal with a group that is so obviously misogynistic and had no room for women. I don't believe the Bible came directly from God and that it should be taken literally. The Bible was obviously written by powerful, educated men who used it as a tool to manipulate and keep the uneducated masses in line. I can't deal with a religion that views mankind(especially women) as inherently evil(sin) and weak, slaves to their base natures. Finally(I could go on but you get the major points), I don't believe that ONLY Christians will be saved and that everyone else, no matter how good, pious, and selfless, will BURN, or that the only way to salvation is to declare alliegence to Jesus. Those "saved" ppl can now never lift a finger to help others because "good works won't get you into Heaven" and no matter what they have done in the past(child rape, et al), all is forgiven but the Pagan/Hindi/Buddist who helps his fellows and is moral is condemned for Eternity. These are the major reasons why I can no longer call myself a Christian. If I BURN, so be it ; I followed my heart. ...lil red...... Btw, I am very sorry for the single paragraph. My PDA removes all the paragraph spaces. Thank you.
I am sorry to hear that you have difficulty with Christianity. I feel this espesially bad, because I am a Christian and devoted follower of Jesus Christ. Keep praying, reading your bible and following God. I feel that God will reveal to you his love.

With that said, you have made many errors in your above statement. Christianity is not about keeping woman as slaves. Christianity is about freeing the slaves (regardless of what we have seen done by evil men in history in the name of Christianity).

It is written: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28

So, the bible is clear that as Christian, God does not regard us differently whether we are male or female. Nor is there a distinction of our social or religious affiliations (Jew nor Greek), Nor is there distinction whether we are slaves or freemen/women (not necessarily the case anymore). But in Christ there is a level playing field for all.

According to the bible, God does not want us to follow blindly any religion. The broreans were even commended in the bible, because they studied the scriptures daily to see if the things that Paul said were true.

So, I urge you to take a look at Christianity from the perspective of the bible and not according to the traditions of men/women. Sit down with your bible and read it. Read what it says. God in his word reveals his love for a fallen and lost people. I hope you will look to the word of God to see this.
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:00 AM
 
Location: PA
2,595 posts, read 4,433,800 times
Reputation: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Now Rafius, you know very well we have historical accounts that speak of Jesus. And those accounts are believed by the vast majority of scholars.
So why do you keep saying the Bible is the only place we find Jesus?
I have recently read the "Histories of the Early Brittians" written originally hundreds of years before Shakespear. Shakespear even quotes the text. It was translated recently into english from the welsh. The book was found in Oxford library. In it it mentions Jesus starting his ministry and the establishment of the Chruch by Peter interwoven into the text. I was shocked when I read it. Here was an addition history that mentions Jesus Christ, apart from Josephus.
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:02 AM
 
Location: PA
2,595 posts, read 4,433,800 times
Reputation: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
I have recently read the "Histories of the Early Brittians" written originally hundreds of years before Shakespear. Shakespear even quotes the text. It was translated recently into english from the welsh. The book was found in Oxford library. In it it mentions Jesus starting his ministry and the establishment of the Chruch by Peter interwoven into the text. I was shocked when I read it. Here was an addition history that mentions Jesus Christ, apart from Josephus.
You can see the translation here
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:09 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 24,342,306 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
With that said, you have made many errors in your above statement. Christianity is not about keeping woman as slaves. Christianity is about freeing the slaves (regardless of what we have seen done by evil men in history in the name of Christianity).

It is written: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28


According to the bible, God does not want us to follow blindly any religion. The broreans were even commended in the bible, because they studied the scriptures daily to see if the things that Paul said were true.

Exodus 21 7-10

"If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. [SIZE=1]8[/SIZE] If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, [SIZE=1][[/SIZE][SIZE=1]b[/SIZE][SIZE=1]][/SIZE] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. [SIZE=1]9[/SIZE] If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. [SIZE=1]10[/SIZE] If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. [SIZE=1]11[/SIZE] If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

Exodus 22 16-17

[SIZE=1]16[/SIZE] "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. [SIZE=1]17[/SIZE] If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.

Leviticus 19 20-22

[SIZE=1]20[/SIZE] " 'If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. [SIZE=1]21[/SIZE] The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for a guilt offering to the LORD. [SIZE=1]22[/SIZE] With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make atonement for him before the LORD for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be forgiven.

Deuteronomy 22 28-29 (I suggest you read this one, its ok to rape a woman)

[SIZE=1]28[/SIZE] If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, [SIZE=1]29[/SIZE] he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. [SIZE=1][[/SIZE][SIZE=1]c[/SIZE][SIZE=1]][/SIZE] He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

1 Corinthians 14 34-35 ( I might note, this is in the New Testament)

As in all the congregations of the saints, [SIZE=1]34[/SIZE]women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. [SIZE=1]35[/SIZE]If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

So yeah, don't follow your religion blindly, remember, everything I posted is in the bible,

AND THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD!
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:33 AM
 
Location: Oahu
28 posts, read 75,405 times
Reputation: 22
As I sat in the Baptist church when I was young with my mouth open saying "Really"? Could never get behind it. I am much older now and believe that we create our own end/beginning. I recently watched some lectures on Shin Buddism and I was amazed. It teaches that we have a responsibility to each other and is not bogged down with guilt/sin. You don't keep it all in, you disown it. Of course there's alot more to it. And the chanting is when you can feel one with all. I have never been an aethiast and know that there is something more. That more is you and I. We need to affirm our faith in each other as a people. Yes Buddism has its icons and stories but it is more real than Western religion in my opinion.
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,339 posts, read 4,393,601 times
Reputation: 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Exodus 21 7-10

"If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. [SIZE=1]8[/SIZE] If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, [SIZE=1][[/SIZE][SIZE=1]b[/SIZE][SIZE=1]][/SIZE] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. [SIZE=1]9[/SIZE] If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. [SIZE=1]10[/SIZE] If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. [SIZE=1]11[/SIZE] If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

Exodus 22 16-17

[SIZE=1]16[/SIZE] "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. [SIZE=1]17[/SIZE] If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.

Leviticus 19 20-22

[SIZE=1]20[/SIZE] " 'If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. [SIZE=1]21[/SIZE] The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for a guilt offering to the LORD. [SIZE=1]22[/SIZE] With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make atonement for him before the LORD for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be forgiven.

Deuteronomy 22 28-29 (I suggest you read this one, its ok to rape a woman)

[SIZE=1]28[/SIZE] If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, [SIZE=1]29[/SIZE] he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. [SIZE=1][[/SIZE][SIZE=1]c[/SIZE][SIZE=1]][/SIZE] He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

1 Corinthians 14 34-35 ( I might note, this is in the New Testament)

As in all the congregations of the saints, [SIZE=1]34[/SIZE]women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. [SIZE=1]35[/SIZE]If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

So yeah, don't follow your religion blindly, remember, everything I posted is in the bible,

AND THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD!

Disgusting isn't it. "God" wanted men to purchase women! Right....it says so in the holy word!!! You'd think that "god" would say that it is wrong to purchase a woman to marry....but nooooo he even sets the price!
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 12,891,958 times
Reputation: 3767
Wink Alternates

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
Disgusting isn't it. "God" wanted men to purchase women! Right....it says so in the holy word!!! You'd think that "god" would say that it is wrong to purchase a woman to marry....but nooooo he even sets the price!
Now now, calm yourself, woman! Those were different times, and we should "adjust" our interpretation of these timeless words, don't you agree? (BTW, make me a san-which, and be quick about it!)

Oh wait! No, Noah's Ark is absolutely true precisely because the bible is inerrant on those parts. Selective correctness? Convenient adherance?

Just because we can and easily do find so much of it in error, because big major hulking chunks of it are no longer relevant and are, in fact, "errant", we should still cling to the parts that those damned heathen scientists and rational thinkers can't disprove. Yet! You know, like Evolution, geology, etc.

Repeat, in a stuporous chant: "As long as I have Answers in Genesis, I shall fear no evil rational thoughts"!

Now then, back to the real world: precious few folk can overcome the astounding effect of childhood indoctrination. Even I, as a late teen, found myself instantly afraid whenever I spoke against God, half-expecting the proverbial lightning bolt to strike my blasphemous mind down. Now, I don't even cover my eyes and tremble when I spout such stuff. I know He's either not here, or is off attending to some other planet-experiment in Evolution. or, of course, is simple "not".

That's why it is SO critical to the Christian mentality and maintenance of their dominant world-view to invade the public school domain, to insist, with foot-stamping authority, that we replace critical thinking in science class with "the simple presentation of an alternate [but completely unscientific] viewpoint".

But... once that powerful bond of fear is broken, and the presumed acolyte starts to think for themselves, as we have here with the author, then it's only a matter of time. The open-mouthed questions "What? Why?" noted above by vinty speaks immeasurably to the value of an unbiased mind.

Welcome, to the real world, lilred0005. Do not be afraid of a God who does not exist. The fact that most Christians' first response to any vocal criticism of God is fear ,should tell you everything you need to know about what they planted in your young mind, and the basis of their entire hold on the world. No wonder they despise science's relentless investigations and conclusions, huh? BTW, good points on Buddhism, vinty. It's an admirable and defensible approach to life.

Last edited by rifleman; 10-06-2009 at 07:13 AM.. Reason: clarity!
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,514 posts, read 37,057,177 times
Reputation: 13985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
I am sorry to hear that you have difficulty with Christianity. I feel this espesially bad, because I am a Christian and devoted follower of Jesus Christ. Keep praying, reading your bible and following God. I feel that God will reveal to you his love.

With that said, you have made many errors in your above statement. Christianity is not about keeping woman as slaves. Christianity is about freeing the slaves (regardless of what we have seen done by evil men in history in the name of Christianity).

It is written: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28

So, the bible is clear that as Christian, God does not regard us differently whether we are male or female. Nor is there a distinction of our social or religious affiliations (Jew nor Greek), Nor is there distinction whether we are slaves or freemen/women (not necessarily the case anymore). But in Christ there is a level playing field for all.

According to the bible, God does not want us to follow blindly any religion. The broreans were even commended in the bible, because they studied the scriptures daily to see if the things that Paul said were true.

So, I urge you to take a look at Christianity from the perspective of the bible and not according to the traditions of men/women. Sit down with your bible and read it. Read what it says. God in his word reveals his love for a fallen and lost people. I hope you will look to the word of God to see this.
Yes, take a look at Christianity from the perspective of the bible...That will surely seal the deal for you...Below is some of God's love revealed...

One of many verses on the treatment of women.
If ... no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of the town shall stone her to death. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)

On slavery...
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." (Leviticus 25:44-46)

On Children..
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. ... Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

"If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters." (Leviticus 26:27-29)

On marriage..
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are both discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

On the value of women...( I assume this is how values of slaves were set.)
Set the value of a male between the ages of twenty and sixty at fifty shekels of silver, according to the sanctuary shekel; and if it is a female, set her value at thirty shekels. If it is a person between the ages of five and twenty, set the value of a male at twenty shekels and of a female at ten shekels. If it is a person between one month and five years, set the value of a male at five shekels of silver and that of a female at three shekels of silver. If it is a person sixty years old or more, set the value of a male at fifteen shekels and of a female at ten shekels. (Leviticus 27:3-7)

Beware though, for if you turn away from Christianity there is this....

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" ..., do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, ... (Deuteronomy 13:10. See also 1 Kings 21:10)
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,821,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
I have recently read the "Histories of the Early Brittians" written originally hundreds of years before Shakespear. Shakespear even quotes the text. It was translated recently into english from the welsh. The book was found in Oxford library. In it it mentions Jesus starting his ministry and the establishment of the Chruch by Peter interwoven into the text. I was shocked when I read it. Here was an addition history that mentions Jesus Christ, apart from Josephus.
...a 15th Century copy of the 12th Century original!! Now I'll leave you to work that one out shall I? If you need any help....just ask!

btw, Josephus is a forgery...sorry about that!
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Michaux State Forest
1,275 posts, read 3,408,562 times
Reputation: 1441
Thanks again to EVERYONE who has supported me or given me advice, I am pleasantly suprised no religious folk have castigated my choice. As far as the poster who asked me to pray and only seek answers from the Bible, she/ he did not respond w/ malice and truthfully thinks she is saving me from eternal damnation. This is what I mean by fear. It is very true that I have been indoctrinated since I could walk, I went to Catholic school from 2nd grade thru H.S., and losing that fear of judgement and ETERNAL damnation is proving most difficult. I know intellectually that it is not true but I fear it may take some time to feel completely at ease.
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