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Old 03-24-2010, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,152,762 times
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It's strange that this topic should come up again because a couple of weeks ago my neighbor who I'd gotten to know went out into his front yard one morning and shot and killed himself. I looked at the obituary and it didn't state anything about the cause of death. I don't see why it needs to. The families of people who commit suicide have enough painful things to deal with and I think their privacy should be respected.

 
Old 03-24-2010, 08:43 AM
 
354 posts, read 669,123 times
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montana: wow. that is unbelievable. he shot himself on his FRONT porch? are there witnesses? yeah this post also remind me of a recent death in our local celebrity news. a tv host's son fell off the 4th floor of their condo building. he was 26. their family driver/chauffer during a police interview which was filed said the son was depressed and has personal problems so he committed suicide. the mother, the tv host said, he did not kill himself - her reason, if he wants to kill himself why didn't he go to the topmost floor(it is an 18 story bldg.) she said she told her to not smoke inside his bed so he went out on the porch. it all reminded us with the death fall of another celebrity. he also fell off the porch of their condo building. people like me guessed they were high on drugs. oh well.
 
Old 03-24-2010, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 10,885,937 times
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Default A mature and dignified end to a punished, agonizing life.

Well, I guess I'll be unpopular here, but I think the concept of death with dignity has not been well discussed within our society. of course, to avoid a madhouse lemming-like rush to the cliff side, the early church realized that, having placed the candy-treat of heaven out there, they had to make suicide a mortal sin, punishable with a direct trip to hell. It's also something both doctors and ministers fight against, as though the continuation of biochemical life processes is in and of itself sacred.

Death with Dignity (DwD let's say) includes self-destruction. It should not be limited to just not getting an artificial life support process.; of course we can'[t have depressed heads of households, who happen to lose their job and can't make the next payment on the Beemer, going off to toss themselves into the river.

But in the case of some relentless, severe, or degenerative disease that "modern med science" hasn't yet gotten a handle on, and let's say you saw it in your father and/or his father, and it's truly unpleasant for all involved, and you now have some early symptoms yourself, so you KNOW what's in store for you. Q: why prolong it when or if it becomes agonizing, relentless and totally debilitating?

The church also does not want any examples being made of how to escape painful and prolonged suffering, else "they'll all want to do it!"

I recently watched my otherwise alert, lucid and once-happy father go through at least 18 months of "hell" in a nursing home and then die alone one night in his miserable, lonely, hospital-like room. A week earlier, he confided in me that he'd really had enough, and the progress of his condition was assured (absent some impossibly miraculous intervention, but dad was not Christian, and God only loves you if you praise Him, I'm told...). He wished he could create his own quiet, peaceful and trouble-free demise.

He was nearly 98 years old, and, for the most part, had a wonderful, fulfilled life. His aged physical & biochemical systems were,however, just plain worn out. That's all she wrote, as they say.

So, yes, suicide per se is quite acceptable to me. It speaks of courage and realization and maturity and a personal well-thought-out desire to spare the family visions of grampa rotting in a nursing home bed, unable any more to even blow his nose. Perhaps if social workers and preachers could even broach the subject positively if it applies, to give it the dignity it deserves. (They certainly do this in the aboriginal cultures world-wide! Danged savages, eh? I know; let's "convert" them!)

After all, right now, to even consider suicide is to engender criticism, disrespect and accusations of cowardice. Often misguided, IMHO, because people who are not aware of, or experienced in, chronic pain, degenerative conditions or extreme old age haven't the slightest idea of what the sufferer is going through. They only wish to force their limited and naive perspective on others, and are often quite healthy themselves.

Perhaps in certain cases, not when a teenager coming off of drugs jumps in front of a train, but if folks like my father have just had enough, we could come up with a more "dignified" moniker.

And to see this in an obit, to answer the OP, would be a mark of courage and maturity, not of shame to the family. The wording would be everything of course.

Any suggestions?
 
Old 03-24-2010, 09:35 AM
 
134 posts, read 81,856 times
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Suicide is the same thing as murder the difference obviously is you are doing it to yourself. Families would not want to put it in the obituaries because it would be embarassing to others and supersede what other good things the person had done in his life.


As from a religious standpoint,it doesn't necessarily mean you are going to hell if you take your life because one doesn't know the heart of an individual with the Lord and the relationship with God they had before taking their own life.
 
Old 03-24-2010, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 10,885,937 times
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wilkes said:

Quote:
Suicide is the same thing as murder the difference obviously is you are doing it to yourself.

Well, from a strictly legal perspective, wilkes, then it's not murder, which is the premeditated taking of something that does not belong to you. By comparison, suicide takes on many aspects, depending entirely on the situation, and it may be very civil, compassionate and logical, or meaningless and selfish, to gain final attention to a life badly lived or fraught with mishap. Who's going to be the judge & jury at your "murder", as you see it?m Frankly, I'll tell such a mob, if I could, to go to hell if they were judging my life after the fact. "Presumptuous" & "judgmental" are two other suitable adjectives.

Families would not want to put it in the obituaries because it would be embarassing to others and supersede what other good things the person had done in his life.

Unless, as I've suggested, it were taken to be an act of self-compassion, maturity and bravery given some horrifying alternative.

As from a religious standpoint,it doesn't necessarily mean you are going to hell if you take your life because one doesn't know the heart of an individual with the Lord and the relationship with God they had before taking their own life.
In my case, I have NO relationship with an imaginary person, and certainly won't be judged or commented on by those who personally choose to live their life under those potentially artificial auspices. Auspices which I have determined to be unnecessary and implausible, and thus of no personal value to me.

Suicide, or perhaps more appropriately, "the conscious and dignified ending of one's physical existence when there are no other options", comes down to rational choices and a thoughtful examination of one's current and future health and related options.

To belittle or pigeon-hole the conditions faced by those with such intensely personal issues speaks to arrogance and a sadly superficial, limited and dismissive attitude.
 
Old 09-27-2013, 07:59 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,816 times
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Suicide is illegal because the law is based on the Christian conviction that only the Lord God can give life and take it away. If a person takes his own life, he has usurped the authority of God through his self-will, thereby also condemning himself to an eternity separated from the Creator. The act of suicide was considered to be most cowardly and selfish and denied the blessing of God to intervene, to reconcile, and bring hope in their situation, an act of an unbeliever. Historically, the shame of a loved one committing this act was so monstrous that communities would often shun the victim's survivors, and families would not speak of the cause of death. This is so sad, because the true God does not condemn, offers hope in every situation, allows every desperate person to approach Him in time of need. He is merciful, tender-hearted, compassionate. The distortion of God's character, whether by ignorant or deceitful men posing as His representatives, causes misery and misunderstanding, because His Son died for us, forgiving us, taking away the bitterness in this life. Come to Him just as you are. Seek Him while He may be found. He knows our frame is dust. He will listen. His is tender to the weak.
 
Old 09-27-2013, 08:16 PM
Status: "Epter than last week." (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
21,814 posts, read 11,274,052 times
Reputation: 10159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily90010 View Post
Suicide is illegal because the law is based on the Christian conviction that only the Lord God can give life and take it away. If a person takes his own life, he has usurped the authority of God through his self-will, thereby also condemning himself to an eternity separated from the Creator. The act of suicide was considered to be most cowardly and selfish and denied the blessing of God to intervene, to reconcile, and bring hope in their situation, an act of an unbeliever. Historically, the shame of a loved one committing this act was so monstrous that communities would often shun the victim's survivors, and families would not speak of the cause of death. This is so sad, because the true God does not condemn, offers hope in every situation, allows every desperate person to approach Him in time of need. He is merciful, tender-hearted, compassionate. The distortion of God's character, whether by ignorant or deceitful men posing as His representatives, causes misery and misunderstanding, because His Son died for us, forgiving us, taking away the bitterness in this life. Come to Him just as you are. Seek Him while He may be found. He knows our frame is dust. He will listen. His is tender to the weak.
The second half of your paragraph doesn't seem to match the first. Your 2nd-half god sounds too merciful to condemn a depressed suicide victim to an eternity away from him (presumably your definition of hell).

Behind every suicide is a sad story. I don't believe they are punished further in whatever afterlife may await.
 
Old 09-27-2013, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
20,468 posts, read 20,127,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
I've had a fascination with reading Obituary columns all my life. And only once have I ever read an Obituary, of a young teenager, where the parents
admitted to the fact he took his own life.

You know full well the Obituary columns are sprinkled with Suicides every day of the year, but why is it so offensive to list Suicide as the cause of death?

I know, for a fact, at the end of my life, if I'm physically capable, I'm going to end my own life and I want my Obituary to state the cause of my death, and the reasons behind it, for the whole world to see.

Perhaps the reason it's not listed as a cause of death, is it might give others the courage to do likewise.

What are your opinions? It should be left out or included in an Obituary?
This all gets back to the idiotic idea that the public has "the right to know." Why they think they have this so-called right is beyond me. Survivors have absolutely no responsibility to share anything about the deceased about how he or she died. They're the ones who are suffering. They shouldn't feel compelled to satisfy anybody else's curiosity.
 
Old 10-11-2013, 09:33 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,816 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily90010 View Post
Suicide is illegal because the law is based on the Christian conviction that only the Lord God can give life and take it away. If a person takes his own life, he has usurped the authority of God through his self-will, thereby also condemning himself to an eternity separated from the Creator. The act of suicide was considered to be most cowardly and selfish and denied the blessing of God to intervene, to reconcile, and bring hope in their situation, an act of an unbeliever. Historically, the shame of a loved one committing this act was so monstrous that communities would often shun the victim's survivors, and families would not speak of the cause of death. This is so sad, because the true God does not condemn, offers hope in every situation, allows every desperate person to approach Him in time of need. He is merciful, tender-hearted, compassionate. The distortion of God's character, whether by ignorant or deceitful men posing as His representatives, causes misery and misunderstanding, because His Son died for us, forgiving us, taking away the bitterness in this life. Come to Him just as you are. Seek Him while He may be found. He knows our frame is dust. He will listen. His is tender to the weak.
Thank you for replying. I cannot presume to know the eternal destiny of a suicide because no one knows the last thoughts, they may change their minds and actions if it were possible and regret what they are doing. I was encouraging the living to turn to the Lord for solace and comfort. Read the Word of God, but don't necessarily depend on pastors or priests to convey compassion because they are not infallible.
 
Old 10-11-2013, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,498 posts, read 12,071,429 times
Reputation: 7319
Outside of curiosity do we usually have a need to know the cause of death of anyone? Let that be the concern of the police and medical professions to handle.

An obituary is basically a short public memorial of a person and a sharing of information as to why the person will not be showing up for work or school.

If the person's death is of a news concern let it be in the news section, no need to be in the obituaries.
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