Where faith failed, and science won.

[justme58]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

How is it that these crooks are able to get away with major fraud? I see so much fraud these days that just seems to be immune to the law, even when it's proven...Not only that this flim flam artist probably gets a tax break as well....These guys and all those so called mediums like John Edwards should be prosecuted.

Oh Noez - prosecution added to "persecution" - whaaaa

[Thomas R.]

I'm not particularly sympathetic to most faith-healers. Most of them seem too prideful, flamboyant, and demanding. Plus demanding miracles all the time doesn't necessarily show great faith and to me it seems like it could show quite the opposite.

I do believe that faith-healing occurs, but it's a rare and wondrous thing. I think a legitimate faith-healer would be about the glorification of God or God's message and not the glorification of themselves. It's also an action God does when he wills rather than a magic trick a person does when they will. I also lean toward thinking faith-healing might be less necessary now that the Apostolic age has ended. People are aware of Christianity now in most places. They are also aware of the idea that you should love God, Love other people, and care for the most vulnerable in society. (Unlike pre-Christian eras exposing newborn girls to the elements so they'll die or having slaves fight to the death for your amusement is no longer tolerable)

[katjonjj]

Originally Posted by DaniMae1

While reading through VPunk's thread I was reminded of one of my many experiences with "faith" and "healing". We belonged to a Pentecostal church for about 14 years. They were big on the whole miracle and healing bit, although I've never witnessed a real miracle. So of course I believe for awhile that if I pray hard enough, believe hard enough, fast long enough, and give enough money that I can pray away my husband's severe high blood pressure (that he's had since a teenager).

We believed with all of our hearts that a healing had taken place! Yay! Praise god! Whoopie! He stops taking his medication. It appeared as though his BP was down! Oh we were just happier than a fat man at an endless buffet! So I proceeded to call all of my non-believing family to tell them the wonderful news. And of course to brag about how my wonderful god healed my husband! Maybe now they'd believe and go to church! (and yes, at the time I really meant it.)

A few weeks later he starts having terrible headaches. Dizziness and lightheadedness. So we go to the doctor and much to our dismay his BP is back in the 200/160 range. The doctor informs us that it had seemed as though he no longer had the condition for awhile because the medication stays in your system for a period of time. Back on the medicine it was! I was so humiliated! But we were informed by the church elders that we should just "praise god anyhow!" And I am thinking "for what?!" You don't give someone praise for doing nothing! And then it was due to some sort of unforgiven sin that he had "lost his healing."

The medication he takes is very exspensive. The only ones that work for him are ARB's which unfortunatly do not come in generics. But thankfully due to modern science these pricey little pills keep him from having a stroke. How does this drug work? Angiotensin II is a chemical produced by the kidneys that causes the muscles surrounding the blood vessels to contract which narrown the arteries. The medication blocks the action of the angiotensin II allowing the arteries to relax. So science has made a way for people with this type of blood pressure to stay under control. Faith did nothing. Yay science!

Well I can see why you ran the other way! Pentecostalism is the worst sort of fraud there is in Christianity. I grew up in a church where the same things were said. YOU didn't pray hard enough... You are hiding sins.. blah blah blah... Nasty place that was.

As for Poppoff.. or whatever his name is... I kinda feel sorry for those people that fall for it but also feel that any time you give any money to a church... you really should do the research!

BTW... fundies won't touch this thread with a ten-foot pole with that video posted

I studied nutritional science and I can say that you are right. Science has come a long way! I have very low BP but then I have a very small frame so I am told it is normal. I often wonder though why these meds cost so much... have you researched prescription help in your area? Sometimes pharmaceutical companies are so greedy they will subsidize the med cost.

Anyway, I don't really care for pharmaceutical companies but that is just my personal bias..

Have you looked into natural remedies? My husband started running 3 miles twice a week and his BP dropped. He also takes a broad spectrum multivitamin made for men and that has improved his mood so that he doesn't stress too much.

In studying nutrition I found that garlic, CoQ-10, fish oil (especially because it is a building block for many sterol derivatives such as hormones, etc.) can all lower BP a little, but also I hear that ginseng is a natural blood thinner so that the blood passes more easily through the arteries.. But there is always the danger that any of those may interact dangerously with meds already being taken so you probably don't want to take these without consultion a nutritionist/physiciam.

Just some thoughts of mine. But I do hope your husband's condition improves because living with that can definitely be a nightmare similar to that of attending a pentecostal church.

[DaniMae1]

Hey thanks Katj....Pentecostalism IS quite nasty. My other favorite is how they dupe you into giving them so much money! The one we went to had "Sacrifice Sunday" for the purpose of collecting 1000's of dollars to enlarge the sanctuary. They DID collect a lot! Like over $100,000! They called it a miracle! HA! Miracle my butt! Anyhow....

Yeah we tried all of the natural stuff that is supposed to lower BP. Didn't work. And it won't work since his is caused from that angiotensin chemical thing. But thanks anyhow! We are going try the niacin for his high cholesterol.