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Old 10-23-2009, 11:23 AM
Status: "OU sucks!" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Disneyland
6,314 posts, read 2,380,041 times
Reputation: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
Survey finds Christianity on the decline -- even in the South


Christian faith still flourishes in the Bible Belt -- but there, like elsewhere, it's in decline.

That's one of the findings of the 2008 American Religious Identification Survey released this week. The study is especially valuable because it tracks trends over time -- previous reports were done in 1990 and 2001 -- and draws on a rich volume of data (in 2008, questionnaires of 54,400 people).

The big finding of the report is that Protestant Christians are in decline:
The percentage of Christians in America, which declined in the 1990s from 86.2 percent to 76.7 percent, has now edged down to 76 percent. Ninety percent of the decline comes from the non-Catholic segment of the Christian population, largely from the mainline denominations, including Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians/Anglicans, and the United Church of Christ.
The number of Catholics is declining as well, but not nearly as much largely because losses in the Northeast have been balanced out by a growth of Catholics -- fueled by new immigrants -- in the South and Southwest. (Perhaps Christians have Latinos and other new immigrants to thank from keeping church values alive.)

Believe what you will but don't let a few little disagreeable facts annoy you. It appears that Thomas Jefferson's assertion to John Adams, third president to the second, just might finally come to fruition:

"the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding"

~Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, from Monticello, April 11, 1823; Lester J. Cappon, ed., <A href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0807842303/">The Adams-Jefferson Letters: The Complete Correspondence~
The above has nothing to do with the following bolded statements made by you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
And in reality it's a function of where one happens to be born. People born in Iran or Saudia Arabia don't spend much time studying the same word of god. People born in the orient don't seem to be very interested in the bible. Come to think of it Christians know very little about the actual scriptures. Most of them know a few verses which were carefully chosen for them and once a week use an hour and a half of their time listening to a minister share the fruits of an hour of study and research which is also based upon a few well chosen verses.

Church is a social event. It's a way for people to share with one another and to know they have a crutch when life's difficult times come along. Religion goes back to primitive mankind's inability to accept his mortality and little has changed. Generation after generation pass this crutch along.

To most "Christians" who are much too busy enjoying their comfortable and convenient lives anything more being required of them is not even considered. .
I just wonder where you get so much knowledge about Christians & churches. How many churches have you been a part of? How many Christians do you know? Unless you have traveled the world, it seems you're painting with a broad brush.
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Old 10-23-2009, 11:43 AM
 
2,958 posts, read 815,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
How many churches have you been a part of?.
You know...I just hate to beat a dead horse. My exploits with the church are posted here in other threads. I was baptized in 1957 before a Christian audience approaching a thousand souls. I never have half done anything in my life so I became a part of the mainstream activities there. I was involved in the planning for new projects, was a member of the Brotherhood, visited the sick and poor, taught Sunday school, coached RA boys, mentored the youngest members of the church, helped with vacation bible school, gave testimony at our church and traveled to nearby surrounding churches and told them how I had been saved. Later in 1957 I was moved to the front of the draft list because I had been deferred because my wife was pregnant and she miscarried. The minister offered to ordain me so I wouldn't have to go. I thought about it for a week or two and turned him down. I went to the army. At that time I realized that his anticipation of a major loss in our regular 10% of gross earnings donations played a major part in what was going on.

I continued to study the new testament until I was over sixty years old with concordances close by for additional opinion and finally knew that I'm smarter than to believe a bunch of superstitious nonsense written by primitive man which resembles a collection of fairy tales.
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Old 10-23-2009, 11:55 AM
Status: "OU sucks!" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Disneyland
6,314 posts, read 2,380,041 times
Reputation: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
You know...I just hate to beat a dead horse. My exploits with the church are posted here in other threads. I was baptized in 1957 before a Christian audience approaching a thousand souls. I never have half done anything in my life so I became a part of the mainstream activities there. I was involved in the planning for new projects, was a member of the Brotherhood, visited the sick and poor, taught Sunday school, coached RA boys, mentored the youngest members of the church, helped with vacation bible school, gave testimony at our church and traveled to nearby surrounding churches and told them how I had been saved. Later in 1957 I was moved to the front of the draft list because I had been deferred because my wife was pregnant and she miscarried. The minister offered to ordain me so I wouldn't have to go. I thought about it for a week or two and turned him down. I went to the army. At that time I realized that his anticipation of a major loss in our regular 10% of gross earnings donations played a major part in what was going on.

I continued to study the new testament until I was over sixty years old with concordances close by for additional opinion and finally knew that I'm smarter than to believe a bunch of superstitious nonsense written by primitive man which resembles a collection of fairy tales.
Through this experience, you know all of this?

Quote:
And in reality it's a function of where one happens to be born. People born in Iran or Saudia Arabia don't spend much time studying the same word of god. People born in the orient don't seem to be very interested in the bible. Come to think of it Christians know very little about the actual scriptures. Most of them know a few verses which were carefully chosen for them and once a week use an hour and a half of their time listening to a minister share the fruits of an hour of study and research which is also based upon a few well chosen verses.

Church is a social event. It's a way for people to share with one another and to know they have a crutch when life's difficult times come along. Religion goes back to primitive mankind's inability to accept his mortality and little has changed. Generation after generation pass this crutch along.

To most "Christians" who are much too busy enjoying their comfortable and convenient lives anything more being required of them is not even considered.
Sounds like your experience is rather narrow to make such wide accusations about such a large group of people.
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Old 10-23-2009, 12:17 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 815,236 times
Reputation: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Sounds like your experience is rather narrow to make such wide accusations about such a large group of people.
My mama used to ask me, "If Everyone In The World Lined Up And Marched Off A Cliff And You Were The Last In Line, Would You Follow Them?"
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Old 10-23-2009, 01:11 PM
Status: "OU sucks!" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Disneyland
6,314 posts, read 2,380,041 times
Reputation: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
My mama used to ask me, "If Everyone In The World Lined Up And Marched Off A Cliff And You Were The Last In Line, Would You Follow Them?"
OK, I give up. You're not getting my point.
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Old 10-23-2009, 01:56 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 815,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
You're not getting my point.
Sorry...I'm doing the best I can.
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Old 10-23-2009, 02:46 PM
 
4,812 posts, read 4,782,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
A Christian is meek, turns the other cheek, walks the extra mile, loves their neighbor as they love theirself, loves their enemies, prays for those who curse and despise them, if sued in court for their coat, volutarily gives their cloak. In addition to that they donate 10% of all they struggle for and give gifts beyond that.
I've never met one. 'Course I'm just 75.[/quote]


1) There are Christians who indeed could be called "meek, love their enemies, etc":

Martin Luther King, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (why do critics of religion always forget he was a Christian? )

Father Damien - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dorothy Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thomas Garrett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2) the Bible only mentions tithing in the OT, and at no point in the NT is that whole "10%" nonsense mentioned.

3) Why not read that pesky other rule book before making assumptions about Christianity? Amazon.com: The Gnostic Bible (Book and Audio-CD Set) (9781590306420): Willis Barnstone, Marvin Meyer: Books
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Old 10-23-2009, 03:38 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 815,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
the Bible only mentions tithing in the OT, and at no point in the NT is that whole "10%" nonsense mentioned
Matt 8:3 ... And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
:4 See that you tell no one; but go your way, show
yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that
Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.


The physical offering of animals does not apply under the New Testament,
so why did Christ compel this compliance with the Law of Moses?


For the same reason he compelled tithing in Matthew 23:23. The Law of
Moses was still in force during the life of Christ. It would have been
'sin' for Christ at this time to have taught against the Law of Moses!

Last edited by Melvin.George; 10-23-2009 at 03:52 PM..
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:04 PM
 
4,812 posts, read 4,782,039 times
Reputation: 2453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
Matt 8:3 ... And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
:4 See that you tell no one; but go your way, show
yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that
Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.
You might want to present the rest it in context:
Quote:
Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" Immediately he was cured of his leprosy.Then Jesus said to him, "See that you don't tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them."
Matthew 8:3-4

Clearly, Christ is saying to the man to bring a piece of evidence to the priest, "as a testimony to them" i.e., as evidence (as some other translations say)

Quote:
The physical offering of animals does not apply under the New Testament,
so why did Christ compel this compliance with the Law of Moses?
Again, he did not. Christ defied the laws of Moses (matthew 5:17-48) and was not the messiah.

Quote:
For the same reason he compelled tithing in Matthew 23:23.
Quote:
How horrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You give one-tenth of your mint, dill, and cumin. But you have neglected justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the most important things in Moses' Teachings. You should have done these things without neglecting the others.
Matthew 23:23

What we are seeing here is Christ saying that tithing really isn't nothing compared to survice, nor is he really telling anyone to tithe, except the Pharisees. What he is saying is that the Pharisees should obey their religion (Judaism) and keep the laws of their prophet (Moses) and that they should tithe, but that it was not important for them to do so compared to other things.


Quote:
The Law of
Moses was still in force during the life of Christ. It would have been
'sin' for Christ at this time to have taught against the Law of Moses!

Yet Christ did just that, time and time again. From take revenge to don't take revenge, from "divorce is in the law" to "divorce is now not in the law" etc. Clearly, Christ was not a follower of the law, and hence, that is why he was "cruxified".

This is all explained much further. Thing is, the orthodox Christians were the ones whom Constantine liked, so they got in their, choose the four least Gnostic sounding gospels (all the gosples are Gnostic gospels) and banned the rest, which got into a lot more detail about Moses, the law, who the real God who deserves worshipping is etc.

Nag Hammadi Library

Pistis Sophia Index
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Old 10-24-2009, 05:27 AM
 
2,958 posts, read 815,236 times
Reputation: 584
[quote=victorianpunk;11321419]You might want to present the rest it in context:

I read it thoroughly. It appears to me that your argument has run out of gas. Why am I not surprised. There are almost 300 direct contradictions in the new testament. I heard many years ago that if the New York Times had sent a dozen star reporters to cover the last eighteen months of Jesus' life and the cruxifiction and they had returned with the stories in the new testament all twelve would have been fired and they wouldn't have printed the story.
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