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Old 11-05-2009, 03:15 AM
 
Location: Western NC
651 posts, read 1,172,235 times
Reputation: 492

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
You have the right of it. "he provides his vision of the acceptable atheist; an eccentric man that keeps his mouth shut."

The theists would love us to shut up and go away. We won't. We have the bit between our teeth, we have the logical worldview in which atheism belongs and we have the right of it. We will not be silent until all the Codswallop, illogic, lies, smearing, misrepresentation and the standing of words on their heads is exposed and they cannot any longer dupe the people into believing that there is any good reason to swallow any one of the theisms on offer.
I absolutely agree with you; we should not be silenced. Our silence has been part of the problem; until recently, we haven't put a face to the atheist and we've allowed others to define us. Unfortunately, many theists have painted a very unflattering picture of us. As a child, I recall being told that atheists were evil boogey-men, satan worhipers, and hell-bound. I feared them and feared for them. That perception is very common where I live.

I've debated with myself about what I would say when theists showed up at my door. Living in the US deep south, I wondered whether I wanted to 'out' myself. I finally decided that it is important for me to put a real face to atheists. Last week, I had the chance when two teenage Christian girls knocked at my door and asked if I attended church. I replied that I was an atheist and did not attend church. One of the girls clutched her Bible tightly, began to tremble and her voice shook when she spoke again. She was afraid of me just as I used to be afraid of atheists. She asked if "I knew Jesus and if I knew I would go to heaven." Since she was so young and obviously afraid, I did not want to debate with her. I simply said "No, I don't believe in heaven. Thank you, have a good day" and shut the door.

I hope that being polite but firm about my beliefs helped to change their view of atheists. I'll probably never know but I'm glad I did it anyway.
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Old 11-05-2009, 03:31 AM
 
Location: Dallas
613 posts, read 811,430 times
Reputation: 546
^ good one but I would have tried and scared her told her I was the devil or somethong. LOL personally I think what ever religion u r u should keep it to ur self and respect other people.
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Old 11-05-2009, 04:42 AM
 
4,248 posts, read 5,007,056 times
Reputation: 10271
I am Australian and honestly I don't see any rampant rise in Atheism. In my world there have always been Atheists, and no they weren't little blokes into nudist pottery (I think my brother would object quite vocally to that description, but I'll be sure to tell him just to hear the rant ).

In recent years the church and especially the Catholic Church has indeed taken a lot of hits in the local media because a series of law suits from victims of molestation has raised the topic of church cover-ups repeatedly. I think this is one of the things he is referring to and this is an attempt to say that it's not the church that's corrupt, it's these plague proportion atheists trying to besmirch their good name.

I think he should be grateful to live in a country where he has a platform to give his point of view in the same media that he says is so against his church.
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Old 11-05-2009, 05:43 AM
 
4,248 posts, read 5,007,056 times
Reputation: 10271
Case in point, this story was on a TV show tonight. It is a response to the Christian advertising that has started appearing everywhere recently...

Jesus Has Issues | Hungry Beast
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Old 11-05-2009, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,035 posts, read 20,465,506 times
Reputation: 19758
I wonder which plague category fits me best... Locust, Boils, First-Born killer, do I bring Darkness in my wake, frogs, lice, flies, do I slaughter cattle with my withering glance or simply bring hail upon my neighbours crops with a single raise of my little and yet powerful finger....

I am an Atheist , it must be the first-born killing, aren't we all Satanists who sacrifice little children children on our altar of evil ???

I never cease to be amused and bemused by some Christians' idea of Atheism as some terrible social ill descended upon the human race.

Imagine, some people who do not believe . What terrible, terrible shock. It would so darn hilarious were it not in fact incredibly tragic.

Atheism has ALWAYS been here, we had to skulk around in the shadows for millennia in fear for our lives and social status, now fortunately we live in a world where having a mind of its own is no longer seen ( by most people anyway) as a great threat for society. We should be rejoicing that we now have the intellectual freedom to come out in the open with our philosophy.

Atheism is here to stay, Get used to it.
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:31 AM
 
5,463 posts, read 5,405,435 times
Reputation: 1800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
The "New Atheist" is one who wants religion to never be expressed in public and mocks theists whenever possible. 3, 2, 1,
Sounds like an attempt to redefine "criticism I can't answer" as mocking - trying to shoot the messenger so to speak. At least that's how I've seen it used here by the "New Christians" who seem very attached to that particular word. Traditional Christians would be more respectful instead of mocking believers whenever possible.
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:29 AM
 
4,175 posts, read 5,565,661 times
Reputation: 1195
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
Sounds like an attempt to redefine "criticism I can't answer" as mocking - trying to shoot the messenger so to speak. At least that's how I've seen it used here by the "New Christians" who seem very attached to that particular word. Traditional Christians would be more respectful instead of mocking believers whenever possible.
Yup! The MO seems to be
1. Potray oneself as a reasonable person
2. Create a "New Atheist" category for the people who are a thorn on your side
3. Do not bring up the millions of religious nut jobs in the world.
4. Tar and feather these "new" militant atheists who are being pesky about things like prayers in schools etc (never mind the constitutional aspects)
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 2,786,375 times
Reputation: 221
Default The Three Arguments of New Atheism

Below are extracts from an article about "the new atheism" published November 5, 2009. The article refers to a talk given by Dinesh D'Souza, a writer and speaker on the subject of atheism. The article is one-sided but it does present the major "arguments" the new atheists are putting forth from D'Souza's point of view, and we've got plenty of atheists on this board who are likely to present their own side of the story.

So I think this is a fair addition to the subject of this thread. And for Christians who have been seeing the three arguments listed below pop up frequently in various ways of presenting them, it helps identify what is going on as atheists become much more militant and apparently focused on a common agenda. These extracts may also provide a few common sense responses for Christians to respond with should they choose to engage in the discussion.


"The old atheism focused on separation of church and state and wasn't all that appealing to the masses, D'Souza said. The new atheism is different.

"It's not content with policing the bounds of church and state, it wants to attack belief in God and wants to attack religion in the private sphere also," D'Souza said.

It wants to make the believer feel like a total idiot for believing in God. So it's more ambitious, it's more aggressive in its agenda."


The first argument against religion is that God is not needed to be good... D'Souza turned this argument around by listing the most prized virtues of atheists: science, the individual, the right to dissent and to criticize, the equal dignity of women, compassion and the abolition of slavery. "All these virtues came into the West, and arguably into the world, because of Christianity."


The second new atheist argument is that religion stands in the way of science. D'Souza said the new atheists point to such stories as how religion insisted the earth was flat.

But D'Souza said the flat earth idea is a legend and that educated people knew it was spherical even in Christ's time and in ancient Greece. "All you need to do is go observe an eclipse," D'Souza said. "You can see the shadow of the earth on the moon. Hey guys! It's round!"


D'Souza finds it curious that the new atheists hearken back to old controversies in science, but seem to ignore recent discoveries that may support a divine creator -- such as the way the laws of the universe are so precisely tuned as to allow the development of life.


The third argument is that religion isn't just wrong, it is pernicious and dangerous. To prove this, the new atheists point to the Inquisition, the Crusades and the Salem witch trials.

It is a matter of degree, however to D'Souza. The Spanish Inquisition, for example, lasted about 375 years and killed about 2,000 people -- about five a year. The Salem witch trials killed 19 people. He said this was 2,019 too many, but these crimes are pretty much unrepeatable today.

The atheist death toll is not only larger, it is more recent and is ongoing, according to D'Souza. He said that in seven decades the atheist regimes of Stalin, Mao and the Nazis killed 100 million people.

"Atheism has amassed a massive body count. A mountain of bodies. An ocean of blood," D'Souza said. "Atheism, and not religion, is responsible for the mass murders of history."


"The belligerence of the new atheism is an important clue that something deeper is going on here," D'Souza said. It has to do with divine ultimate justice.

"How do you get out from out of the shadow of unceasing accountability, of unremitting moral judgement?" D'Souza said. "Well, abolish the judge. If you can somehow get rid of God, then all his preachments and commandments become optional."


http://www.mormontimes.com/studies_doctrine/doctrine_discussion/?id=11536&preview=1

Last edited by justamere10; 11-05-2009 at 08:54 AM..
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:33 AM
 
4,175 posts, read 5,565,661 times
Reputation: 1195
^^^ I always consider the source and Dinesh is far from being unbiased or a moderate. Granted Wiki is not authoritative, it does seem to have a lot of info on this guy.
Dinesh D'Souza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An immigrant christian from the third world is great for publicity and spreading the message - wonder how much of his livelihood is tied to that.

Anyway, where are these "new" atheists descending upon religion like the plague?? How come the news media does not have a whiff of it yet?

Last edited by calmdude; 11-05-2009 at 10:02 AM..
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,126 posts, read 24,048,759 times
Reputation: 16150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maia160 View Post
I absolutely agree with you; we should not be silenced. Our silence has been part of the problem; until recently, we haven't put a face to the atheist and we've allowed others to define us. Unfortunately, many theists have painted a very unflattering picture of us. As a child, I recall being told that atheists were evil boogey-men, satan worhipers, and hell-bound. I feared them and feared for them. That perception is very common where I live.

I've debated with myself about what I would say when theists showed up at my door. Living in the US deep south, I wondered whether I wanted to 'out' myself. I finally decided that it is important for me to put a real face to atheists. Last week, I had the chance when two teenage Christian girls knocked at my door and asked if I attended church. I replied that I was an atheist and did not attend church. One of the girls clutched her Bible tightly, began to tremble and her voice shook when she spoke again. She was afraid of me just as I used to be afraid of atheists. She asked if "I knew Jesus and if I knew I would go to heaven." Since she was so young and obviously afraid, I did not want to debate with her. I simply said "No, I don't believe in heaven. Thank you, have a good day" and shut the door.

I hope that being polite but firm about my beliefs helped to change their view of atheists. I'll probably never know but I'm glad I did it anyway.
Now you've marked yourself. I used to get Christians (run of the mill evangelicals and of course, mormons) at my house once a month or so. I'd usually tell them I worshipped in my own way etc etc, never mentioning I was an Atheist. A while back they started coming once every other week or so and leaving stuff all over my porch, which would then blow into my yard and I'd have to spend time searching for it and cleaning it up. I live near to an estuary and nature preserve, so it irritated me.

Finally, I said I was an Atheist (quite nicely) and that I wasn't interested, but thanked them again. Now, I find literature 2 or 3 times a week, and they come by EVERY WEEKEND to 'talk to me about Jesus'. One of these days I'm going to get pissed off enough to REALLY give them a piece of my mind, then they can go back to their flock and talk about how mean and vile Atheists are...

I hope you aren't marked like I am
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