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Old 11-07-2009, 05:09 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,384,526 times
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definitely a lota active church haters out there.
but i dont think they are atheists just former members who failed to get approval on their new lifestyle.
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 3,374,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
You can close your eyes real tight, but that doesn't make the truth go away. We are finite. Just as there was a beginning, there will be an end. I know we have a survival instinct that hates to hear that and fights to find a viable theory that will allow us to live for ever, (in one form or another.) But the best evidence we have suggests that at some point our consciousness will be taken from us, we will no longer be self-aware, and that will be the end of us.

The appeal of atheism isn't that it feels good to believe in it. Its appeal is that it appears to be true. That's its main virtue.

My experience may not be typical, but it took a little work before I gave in to the idea that my fantasy of life eternal was based on what I wanted, not what was likely to be true. I had some sleepless nights as I learned to accept my fate, and came to understand what that meant.

But I eventually got through it. I came to terms with my fate, and now I not only accept it, I don't fear it. Just like I don't miss being awake when I'm asleep, I know I won't miss being alive when I'm dead. The fear of death is a reaction to the survival instincts, and not based on logic.
Yes, of course, there was a beginning to your physical body, and there will be an end to it, at least until your inevitable resurrection.

The biggest fallacy of atheism is the head-in-sand denial of what everyone else knows, that man is a dual creature, a physical body with an immortal spirit inside it. The truth is that at some point your BRAIN will be taken from you. But your consciousness, your awareness, is eternal.

Like it or not and regardless of the sleepless nights that proved nothing, that is the fate that awaits you...
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 3,374,094 times
Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
definitely a lota active church haters out there.
but i dont think they are atheists just former members who failed to get approval on their new lifestyle.
But then what would you know, you've only been read nine million times.

Good points, and possibly correct too.
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:39 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,501,132 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
Yes, of course, there was a beginning to your physical body, and there will be an end to it, at least until your inevitable resurrection.

The biggest fallacy of atheism is the head-in-sand denial of what everyone else knows, that man is a dual creature, a physical body with an immortal spirit inside it. The truth is that at some point your BRAIN will be taken from you. But your consciousness, your awareness, is eternal.

Like it or not and regardless of the sleepless nights that proved nothing, that is the fate that awaits you...

Your consciousness and awareness are completely dependent upon having a functioning brain. without a functioning brain, you have no thoughts.

A few hundred years ago, that wasn't known. To the 14th century person, a "soul" was a reasonable explanation for our internal dialogue. It also comforted the survival instinct to believe we had a soul that was eternal.

But we should no longer accept a 14th century understanding of the way the mind works. We now know that it's our brain that does all of our thinking. We have pretty good explanations for the mechanisms involved in thought, and souls explain none of it.

Just what is it that you think a soul does and not the brain? Because there's a pretty good chance that I can point you to evidence that it is really the brain doing it instead. (Granted, it will have to be later, because I'm going fishing with my kids now.)
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,521 posts, read 37,121,123 times
Reputation: 13998
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
Oops, maybe if you were a US citizen or at least living in this nation you could get away with that comment, but some patriots, even fellow atheists, might find it quite offensive eh.
I think only the loons would find it offensive...If atheists find that comment offensive, please speak up.
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Old 11-07-2009, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 3,374,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Your consciousness and awareness are completely dependent upon having a functioning brain. without a functioning brain, you have no thoughts.

A few hundred years ago, that wasn't known. To the 14th century person, a "soul" was a reasonable explanation for our internal dialogue. It also comforted the survival instinct to believe we had a soul that was eternal.

But we should no longer accept a 14th century understanding of the way the mind works. We now know that it's our brain that does all of our thinking. We have pretty good explanations for the mechanisms involved in thought, and souls explain none of it.

Just what is it that you think a soul does and not the brain? Because there's a pretty good chance that I can point you to evidence that it is really the brain doing it instead. (Granted, it will have to be later, because I'm going fishing with my kids now.)
I'm glad you make your kids a priority, a lot of people don't, enjoy your time with them.

Sorry, I can't buy into your 14th century etc. musings. To me God is as real as are the lights in the sky on a clear night miles away from the city. I've experienced many times His communications to me, felt His love, know that He lives, know where I came from, why I'm here, and where I'm going when this now aging physical tabernacle finally gets to take a rest.

I'm not completely unlearned, I know the value of science, and also its limitations. Your rationalizations to justify your disbelief in God to me don't make sense when everything around me points to Him. But I understand how it is to have ears and hear not, and eyes and see not, as the scriptures point out about people such as yourself.

It is my personal thinking that the spirit is necessary to integrate the myriad intelligent parts that make up a living physical body, and also to make possible its animation. Like a hand inside a glove, remove the hand and the glove falls to the ground motionless, and eventually disintegrates.

I'm sorry for you that you lost your faith in God and Jesus Christ. What you've 'gained' your faith and trust instead of in God in humans who stayed in school a while longer than most, and specialized in science subjects, is, in my opinion, just a mess of pottage.
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Old 11-07-2009, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 3,374,094 times
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I think only the loons would find it offensive...If atheists find that comment offensive, please speak up.
Isn't it your country that has in almost every adult's pocket one or more one dollar coins each featuring a loon on one side of them?
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Old 11-07-2009, 06:11 PM
 
4,474 posts, read 5,411,259 times
Reputation: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
Cool glasses Ax, but for me that would be like trying to "unembrace" the sun, they're both as real to me. Guess I'll never understand you.
Hey, it's a common enough response we get from you people.

Athiests, and we non-Abrahamic Theists, don;t require your god or your relgiion to live moral, fullfilling lives. This is simply proven by 1. the disproportionatly tiny fraction of us in US jails for the former, and 2. exampled by Atheists and non-Abrahamics worldwide for the latter.
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Old 11-07-2009, 06:12 PM
 
4,474 posts, read 5,411,259 times
Reputation: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
definitely a lota active church haters out there.
but i dont think they are atheists just former members who failed to get approval on their new lifestyle.
And yet no church is "attacked" until it attacks others.
Go figure.
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Old 11-07-2009, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,521 posts, read 37,121,123 times
Reputation: 13998
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
Isn't it your country that has in almost every adult's pocket one or more one dollar coins each featuring a loon on one side of them?
Yup, but you know very well that that is not the sort of loon I'm talking about....
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