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Whatever you say I guess. What about the seventy times in the new testament that he warned of the hot flames of eternal hell. There are one hundred and sixty two altogether but Hey Zeus said something about it seventy times.
Doesn't seem like much of an attitude to me.
There is no eternal torment. The concept of hellfire and damnation is a primitive misconception based on fear. God does NOT punish anyone eternally. Our primitive ancestors' only source of motivation for controlling their selfish behaviors was fear (of God, Pharoah, Kings, etc.). It was the "beginning" of wisdom and learning self-control . . . NOT the end goal.
There is no eternal torment. The concept of hellfire and damnation is a primitive misconception based on fear. God does NOT punish anyone eternally. Our primitive ancestors' only source of motivation for controlling their selfish behaviors was fear (of God, Pharoah, Kings, etc.). It was the "beginning" of wisdom and learning self-control . . . NOT the end goal.
The Son of Man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
"So it shall be at the end of the world. The angels shall come out and separate the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Mat 13:49-50
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Away from me, you that are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels!" "These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life."
Mat 25:41 & 46
And if your foot offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame than to have two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched where their conscience dies not, and the fire is not quenched."
Mark 9:45-46
And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame."
Luke 16:23-24
He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil
John 3:18-19
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2Th 1:8-9
And a third angel followed them, saying with a great voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.
Rev 14:9-11
There's 162 of them...70 spoken by Jesus himself.
Last edited by Melvin.George; 11-05-2009 at 03:30 PM..
There is no eternal torment. The concept of hellfire and damnation is a primitive misconception based on fear. God does NOT punish anyone eternally. Our primitive ancestors' only source of motivation for controlling their selfish behaviors was fear (of God, Pharoah, Kings, etc.). It was the "beginning" of wisdom and learning self-control . . . NOT the end goal.
So where do you stand in your beliefs? If you are Christian than you surely believe that eternal fire/hell does exist as it says so in the Bible numerous times. We have to establish this first before we can discuss further into it.
So where do you stand in your beliefs? If you are Christian than you surely believe that eternal fire/hell does exist as it says so in the Bible numerous times. We have to establish this first before we can discuss further into it.
Dream on! We might hope but the church conducted witch hunts for thousands of years and put hundreds of thousands of innocent young women to death. The scripture is still there but since everybody learned that there is no such thing as a witch they dropped it.
The church required infant baptism for a millenium but when society began to reject the concept they backed away from the requirement. The scriptures to which they referred are still there but only a few churches continue to require it.
Slavery was accomodated for thousands of years and tolerated even longer. When it became less than the vogue and their pocketbooks were being affected they dropped it like a hot potato.
Now...after hundreds of billions of "Fire and Brimstone" sermons ingtelligent people are awake to the rediculous concept of a soul burning in fire and brimstone for all eternity so they're taking a stand that it's all a matter of translation. All the scriptures are still there...162 mentions of hell in the new testament, 70 by Jesus himself.
The hypocritical men who run the churches in this world will do or say anything to keep people coming on Sundays to deliver their free lunch.
Dream on! We might hope but the church conducted witch hunts for thousands of years and put hundreds of thousands of innocent young women to death. The scripture is still there but since everybody learned that there is no such thing as a witch they dropped it.
The church required infant baptism for a millenium but when society began to reject the concept they backed away from the requirement. The scriptures to which they referred are still there but only a few churches continue to require it.
Slavery was accomodated for thousands of years and tolerated even longer. When it became less than the vogue and their pocketbooks were being affected they dropped it like a hot potato.
Now...after hundreds of billions of "Fire and Brimstone" sermons ingtelligent people are awake to the rediculous concept of a soul burning in fire and brimstone for all eternity so they're taking a stand that it's all a matter of translation. All the scriptures are still there...162 mentions of hell in the new testament, 70 by Jesus himself.
The hypocritical men who run the churches in this world will do or say anything to keep people coming on Sundays to deliver their free lunch.
Some of what you said as true, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was saying based on the Bible alone as the original versions are the book that most Christians base their beliefs off of. As far as churches now adays being hypocritical I couldn't agree more. One church in my town uses the donations to add on to the church and make it bigger (adding basketball courts, meeting rooms, etc....not that those things are bad but they definitley arn't necessary as this church is already massive and thats an understatement.
Also I said the original/older versions of the Bible because I have see newer versions of the Bible that did exactly what you said, and have been changed around for the purpose of self benefit.
As far as churches now adays being hypocritical I couldn't agree more. .
It's not just now-a-days...they've been that way for 1000 years. I think when they made up their mind to dump the hell fire part that has to be the epitome of arrogance and ignorance. If they think most of the people are going to just ride along and take their word for that they must really believe we're all sheep.
God wants you to Love each other as He loves you. So the next time someone shoots you the finger driving down the road, pull up next to them and scream, I LOVE YOU!!!
Jehovah wants us to simply serve HIM the way HE wants us to. How is that? Well, the bible has it all there for us to know.
Jehovah put his Son, Jesus, here as example to all. If you do as Jesus done, this is what Jehovah wants.
Jesus warned that the love among the people of the world will cool off, having great pride, haughtiness, self loving.
This world is in the state it is in because this is the way it is supposed to be, for the moment. There is nothing that can be done about it now. The only thing that can be done is for people to have the veil lifted from their eyes and realize the truth when they hear it. The world is in the state its in because Satan has been let lose and he is very angry, knowing he has a short time before he is locked away
Jesus said you will know his people by the love they show one another. This means that his true followers will not hate one another, will not speak out against one another, will not kill one another even in war or protest. Jesus gives us all the info we need to know what we are to do to serve Jehovah in the way HE wants to be served, not in the way we want to do it.
The whole point of the bible is for us, Jehovahs children, to get to know him FIRST, when we find out who he is, then we could better serve him.
As a child comes to know his Mother and Father, he learns what pleases them and if given the right guidance and counsel, will strive to please in the way THEY want him to, not how HE wants to please them. The child will develop a fear, not of the parents, but of displeasing them. This is what has been misunderstood by many, they hear God fearing and they think there is a reason to fear God, himself. But to be God fearing is to fear displeasing him, not fear him as a God.
We are to love Jehovah and Jesus as much as our sinful minds can allow us to. We are to serve Jehovah as he is so deserves. Just as we want our children to love us with all they are capable of, just as we want our children to "serve" us in such a way as to make the right choices we have spent so much time teaching them about, so Jehovah wants from us.
Not all roads lead to the same place. Jehovah didnt ask us to serve him however we feel he wants, because we all know that just isnt working out, hence, his way.
Jehovah knows what hurts us, what influences us and what helps us. We would be wise to listen to him because he is, after all, the perfect one here. Who are we to question that?
I believe this is just like asking "What is a Unicorns' favorite food", it is asking someone to speculate on the opinion of a mythological character.
No its not like that at all. If you don't believe in god then I'm not really sure why you posted in this thread. Secondly, to me God is not poseidon or some dragon with three heads like in mythology, he is just God, you either get me there or you don't. Its just the essence that I feel like someone is up there watching over me. The whole point of this thread in my eyes is that I don't think a label/description/story is necessary.
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