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The main idea of the Bible is to tell the story of God and how Christ came to earth to save mankind. Even if certain names, numbers and dates don't corroborate, they still do not detract from the main theme of it. I don't get it, people will believe history books, evolutionary concepts and all sorts of other bogus theories and put their faith in those things but when it comes to the Bible, they cannot or will not believe in it. Go figure.
The main idea of the Bible is to tell the story of God and how Christ came to earth to save mankind. Even if certain names, numbers and dates don't corroborate, they still do not detract from the main theme of it. I don't get it, people will believe history books, evolutionary concepts and all sorts of other bogus theories and put their faith in those things but when it comes to the Bible, they cannot or will not believe in it. Go figure.
This is a good point and true...however, there is a very, very good reason for this viewpoint.
People don't believe the Bible as a whole because even though you say
Even if certain names, numbers and dates don't corroborate, they still do not detract from the main theme of it.
...that's not what the Bible itself says. The Bible says every word is true, and that not a single word can be added and not a single word can be taken away.** (Edited to add: It doesn't actually say a "single" word...it says "words"...so I looked it up and added the applicable scripture below. Fair is fair and I don't want to state my point by paraphrasing...that would be cheating. )
If the Bible didn't say this, and we could believe part or most of it without having to believe every detail, things would be different. But Christianity demands that we believe it entirely, especially every word accredited to Jesus, or we believe none of it. So does Judaism basically, I think, at least the Jewish Bible portion (the first five books).
The other things you state above--history and evolutionary concepts--don't demand this at all. We're not told, "If you don't believe George Washington chopped down a cherry tree, then you don't believe in George Washington at all, and you're not fit for this history class. Get out." We're not told that we're cold-hearted not to believe that particular detail, or that we're evil for not believing it and therefore not fit to learn about history at all.
Adding: I didn't know the actual scripture word-for-word so here it is.
Rev 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Last edited by JerZ; 05-20-2007 at 09:39 AM..
Reason: To add 22:18
Where does it say this exactly? I have searched through the scriptures and I cannot find it. I can find that these following terms listed are true: men, token, report, words, God, laws, judgments, witness, Lord, justice, You, Light, record, saying, bread, One, testimony, Man, vine, things, heart, Him, ways, etc. (I used the Strong's Concordance to find the word passages containing the word true but it is by no means an exhaustive search. There are probably other similar terms I haven't had time to look up).
Many believe that the original manuscripts were the only true and faithful presentation of God's Word. Many today believe that no matter what translation you read, it is true. Personally, I believe that the Bible is a true and faithful account of everything contained therein.
Note: I have read a lot of history books in my life and never have I found one that declares everything contained within its pages to be accurate and true. If this is the case, do I assume that all of those books are false and inaccurate accounts?
I guess I am in a minority but I have a simple faith that tells me that the Bible is true, regardless if it contains minor discrepancies. Faith is the key element, in my opinion, that tells you this because you either believe the Bible or you don't, simple as that. Gotta run so good night folks!!! God bless.
Where does it say this exactly? I have searched through the scriptures and I cannot find it. I can find that these following terms listed are true: men, token, report, words, God, laws, judgments, witness, Lord, justice, You, Light, record, saying, bread, One, testimony, Man, vine, things, heart, Him, ways, etc. (I used the Strong's Concordance to find the word passages containing the word true but it is by no means an exhaustive search. There are probably other similar terms I haven't had time to look up).
Many believe that the original manuscripts were the only true and faithful presentation of God's Word. Many today believe that no matter what translation you read, it is true. Personally, I believe that the Bible is a true and faithful account of everything contained therein.
Note: I have read a lot of history books in my life and never have I found one that declares everything contained within its pages to be accurate and true. If this is the case, do I assume that all of those books are false and inaccurate accounts?
I guess I am in a minority but I have a simple faith that tells me that the Bible is true, regardless if it contains minor discrepancies. Faith is the key element, in my opinion, that tells you this because you either believe the Bible or you don't, simple as that. Gotta run so good night folks!!! God bless.
Remember though that the book of Revelation was written as a separate book; it didn't become a collection until compiled years later. The idea here was that there was to be nothing added to or taken away from this particular book that John wrote. There are mentions of manuscript addition/subtraction in books of the OT though but again, they refer to what was recorded at the time. However, taken as a whole, you are right, we shouldn't add anything to it or remove anything either.
And yes, JerZ, I did read your post again. I was trying to do several things at once at home while trying to reply. Guess it's true that woman can multi-task and men cannot!!! Sorry about that!!
Again, I suggest in order to believe in what the Bible says is true is to rely on faith. I can't emphasize that enough. God gave us free will to make the decisions we make in life and we go from there.
Adding: I didn't know the actual scripture word-for-word so here it is.
Rev 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Jerz, keep in mind: When St. John wrote "this book" and "the prophecy," he was talking specifically about the Book of Revelation, not the Bible as a whole. The Bible, really, is not A book so much as a collection of books.
I do believe that the Bible is True. But don't confuse Truth with Fact. One cannot use the Bible as a science book, because that is not its intention. Nor are all books of the Bible history books. Some are. But Job is a play. Proverbs is exactly what it says it is. The Psalms are songs, ranging from worship songs to the blues to rants. The Prophets are the visions of prophets, and they are filled with metaphor and symbolism.
Jerz, keep in mind: When St. John wrote "this book" and "the prophecy," he was talking specifically about the Book of Revelation, not the Bible as a whole. The Bible, really, is not A book so much as a collection of books.
I do believe that the Bible is True. But don't confuse Truth with Fact. One cannot use the Bible as a science book, because that is not its intention. Nor are all books of the Bible history books. Some are. But Job is a play. Proverbs is exactly what it says it is. The Psalms are songs, ranging from worship songs to the blues to rants. The Prophets are the visions of prophets, and they are filled with metaphor and symbolism.
Whoa! Insert_googley-eyed_emoticon_here.
What did you mean, "Job is a play"? Do you mean a play as in something that's acted out on stage?
Am I to understand that only Revelation needs to be taken literally but the other books can all be taken with a grain of salt?
Previously I was given to understand that if I didn't believe in certain parts of the Bible, especially the NT, for instance, that Jesus was of virgin birth, etc., then that was what would earn me a one-way ticket to hell. But unless I'm misunderstanding your post, your viewpoint is that all of the books of the Bible are in question except for Revelation as far as literal authenticity goes. If this is so, then MANY people believe in the "ideas" of the Bible while still thinking some are, as you state, metaphors and symoblism...so maybe Christians don't need to push so hard to save us after all.
What did you mean, "Job is a play"? Do you mean a play as in something that's acted out on stage?
Whether or not Job was ever acted out “on stage” is anyone’s guess. Personally, I doubt it, since the concept of “stage plays” came along way after this book was written.
But read the book. It’s a drama meant to prove a point. Characters will take in long -- and I mean LOOOONG -- paragraphs to state their theme, then something happens, then the next person gets their turn. It’s written very much like a Socratic argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
Am I to understand that only Revelation needs to be taken literally but the other books can all be taken with a grain of salt?
Huh? Sorry, that’s not AT ALL what I meant. If anything, Revelation is the most non-literal book in the Bible. It’s full of metaphors and symbolism. I was simply saying that St. John’s final warning in that book was about that book. At the time he wrote those words, the Bible hadn’t even been compiled yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
Previously I was given to understand that if I didn't believe in certain parts of the Bible, especially the NT, for instance, that Jesus was of virgin birth, etc., then that was what would earn me a one-way ticket to hell.
Who told you that??? Salvation in Christ is found in Christ, not in the Bible. I don’t want to treat the Bible too lightly. I do believe it is the inspired Word of God. But the Bible won’t save you. Only Christ will save you. One of His precious gifts is sacred scripture, but it is hardly the only gift.
Look at it like this:
The Bible is the menu. Christ is the meal. A menu without a meal is cruel mockery. But a meal without a menu means that there might be some things in the kitchen you don’t know about. You need both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
But unless I'm misunderstanding your post, your viewpoint is that all of the books of the Bible are in question except for Revelation as far as literal authenticity goes.
Nope. You misunderstood me then. I simply state that Truth does not have to be Fact in order to be authentic. Not every book in the Bible is a history book. Some are certainly. But many are metaphoric visions. Some are songs. A great deal of the New Testament is someone else’s mail.
Biblical interpretation must take this into account. Just because the story of Adam and Eve may not be literal Fact does not make it any less True. See the difference?
Last edited by Mark S.; 05-21-2007 at 11:03 AM..
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