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Old 12-06-2009, 10:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Very few people are ever going to "buy into" scientism and therefore it's influence is limited. Still it, or a variant on it, certainly had some role in things like Sweden's eugenics program.
There has been a movement afoot for some time now to merge "science and spirituality" (or "science and religion"--but not as you and I know religion). This movement is not confined to academe and in fact has strong political overtones. One of the key players is the Institute of Noetic Sciences, with which Van Jones has been associated.

Euthanasia is a huge part of this platform.

 
Old 12-06-2009, 10:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
The question is vague and open-ended. What do I believe about what?

On science I believe it is the way to study repeatable natural phenomenon. I think it has enriched our lives, but that mostly it is just a tool. In certain hands science can be used for evil, like certain kinds of chemical or germ warfare. In other hands it can be used for great good, like medicine and understanding the Universe and so forth. Just like most any tool can be used for good or for bashing someone in the head. Mostly though I like science, for what I feel it actually is. I don't like science because I need it to be a creed or to give all answers in my life.

On God I believe in the Nicene Creed, the Church Councils, the sacraments, the Beatitudes, Purgatory, and the things I mentioned in the post that apparently confused you to no end.

I am a Roman Catholic. I do not believe in Sola Scriptura or Biblical literalism.

I am also a conservative in that I believe the wisdom of our ancestors and traditions has value. It may not always be right, but it's not to be thrown-away as if it were nothing. So telling me that "X is old and therefore false" is meaningless to me and fallacious. Pythagorean theory was discovered by people without toilet paper or indoor plumbing, but it's proven true.
OK...now answer this. How is it that primitive mankind, which is where all religion came from...knew so much about god and essentially nothing about anything else?

He thought the earth was flat and the universe revolved around it. He knew nothing about gravity or creativity or proper ways to eat. As a matter of fact he spent much of his time searching for food and water.

He knew nothing about microbiology and defecated on the ground, wiped on his hands spreading disease and contamination into the streams and rivers and then when he became ill and was dying he imagined that some vendictive creator was punishing him for his imagined sins, usually related to food or sex...also contrived in his illogical mind. The myths and outright lies were then promulgated from generation to generation and that's why the entire population of the planet is so wrapped up in superstitious nonsense.

GET REAL FOR ONCE!!
 
Old 12-06-2009, 10:20 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,262,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
OK...now answer this. How is it that primitive mankind, which is where all religion came from...knew so much about god and essentially nothing about anything else?

He thought the earth was flat and the universe revolved around it. He knew nothing about gravity or creativity or proper ways to eat. As a matter of fact he spent much of his time searching for food and water.

He knew nothing about microbiology and defecated on the ground, wiped on his hands spreading disease and contamination into the streams and rivers and then when he became ill and was dying he imagined that some vendictive creator was punishing him for his imagined sins, usually related to food or sex...also contrived in his illogical mind. The myths and outright lies were then promulgated from generation to generation and that's why the entire population of the planet is so wrapped up in superstitious nonsense.

GET REAL FOR ONCE!!
There is no need to shout at Thomas--it only reflects poorly on you.

You are confusing the creator with His creation.

Christianity and Judaism are not pantheistic or monistic religions. One need not understand the ins and outs of the physical world (creation) to understand the nature of the creator as He has revealed himself to the part of his creation known as "man."
 
Old 12-06-2009, 10:21 AM
 
Location: The #1 sunshine state, Arizona.
11,279 posts, read 9,744,137 times
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New Science is replacing the supposed god given theories we find in the Bible with facts.
 
Old 12-06-2009, 11:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
There is no need to shout at Thomas--it only reflects poorly on you.

You are confusing the creator with His creation.

Christianity and Judaism are not pantheistic or monistic religions. One need not understand the ins and outs of the physical world (creation) to understand the nature of the creator as He has revealed himself to the part of his creation known as "man."
For your information I'm not confusing anything with anything. I was brainwashed with that primitive crock beginning over seventy years ago. I will speak up continuously from now to the day I die. I repeat...how did ignorant, primitive mankind get to know so much about god which nobody can see and so little about everything else which they could?
 
Old 12-06-2009, 11:12 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
OK...now answer this. How is it that primitive mankind, which is where all religion came from...knew so much about god and essentially nothing about anything else?
DS answered some of this.

First I don't think they necessarily knew everything about God. I mean how could they unless they were God? They just knew of various values and principles he revealed to them.

Second they didn't know "essentially nothing" about anything else. That you have such disrespect for primitive peoples is interesting, I suppose, but doesn't say all that much. Luke was a doctor. The thirteenth chapter Leviticus mentions separating out lepers. After a point the early Christians were aware of people like Galen. The Medieval Nestorian Hunayn Ib-Ishaq wrote about opthamology.

Third God does not have to reveal knowledge that humans can discover for themselves. You feel he should, but that doesn't mean he inevitably must.
 
Old 12-06-2009, 11:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantalust View Post
Did not god himself exalt Mary more than any other human person before or since? He took her into heaven and proclaimed that she is "Queen of all things"?

Then, according to the bible, "worshipping" the human Mary is pagan idolatry and anyone who ever did this is wicked and will burn in unquenchable eternal hellfire and stuff.


1. Did not god himself exalt Mary more than any other human person before or since? He took her into heaven and proclaimed that she is "Queen of all things"?

Yes, He did.

Then, according to the bible, "worshipping" the human Mary is pagan idolatry and anyone who ever did this is wicked and will burn in unquenchable eternal hellfire and stuff.

No, "anyone who ever did this" is not deemed "wicked" and "destined for hell" per se. If this were the case, all mortals would be destined for hell because we have all sinned mortally at one point or another--and this cannot be the case because we know for a fact that there are saints in heaven.

For further information, seek out discussion on the "four last things" (death, judgment, heaven, and hell).
 
Old 12-06-2009, 11:31 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,262,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
how did ignorant, primitive mankind get to know so much about god which nobody can see and so little about everything else which they could?
Because God chose to reveal himself to His people at a point in history.

Read more....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_bush
 
Old 12-06-2009, 11:35 AM
Status: "driving with aloha" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Heck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
and this cannot be the case because we know for a fact that there are saints in heaven.
You want to believe it, fine.

Fact?
Not.
 
Old 12-06-2009, 11:37 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,262,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantalust View Post
You want to believe it, fine.

Fact?
Not.
Whether you choose to believe it or not does not change the fact that it's true.

Or, as Flannery O'Connor wrote, "The Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it emotionally."
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