The origin of morals/values. (hell, bible, quote, punished)

[cleatis]

I have read many posts on here that say that our value system (moral code) could have only come from god. This it seems is a common idea of where our morals have come from. from this, it is asserted that we would be best to adhere to this moral code that god imposed on us, even today - especially today.

Despite the obvious "canned" nature of this, it doesn't seem to be very applicable. If humans have no capacity for morals, values and in essence "right and wrong" (thus being the reason for god to have to give us a moral code) then wouldn't a god be wasting their time to impose a system of morals upon us? I mean why even bother trying to give us morals if we haven't the capacity to understand them?

We obviously have some capacity for understanding moral codes. So why couldn't our morals be born out of that capacity?

The problem I have with the idea of these god mandated morals is that they are too often molded to be rigid and absolute. Consider our laws - eventually, no matter what law, you will come to a point where a particular law is not appropriate for a situation. The fact of the matter is that given the nature of everyday human events, there is an endless array of different moral situations. The moral or value has to be malleable; it has to be able to fit itself to the various degrees of situations.

If a moral cannot fit itself to a situation, it unnecessarily limits freedoms and liberties. People can be wrongly condemned, or punished too harshly for things that are virtually harmless or far less harmful than other daily occurrences.

We all know that we shouldn't kill, rape or steal. In fact if these things went unchecked, communities and societies would collapse. And these things are expected to be adhered to. Yet there are many who can build a considerable debate for the death penalty. The death penalty kills people. Wars kill people left and right - yet these instances of "do not kill" are acceptable. Isn't that a moral grey area when killing thousands over a piece of land is acceptable, but killing one person over a crack deal gone wrong is a moral offence?

But when discussing this god made system of morals, why not consider the era when all these biblical morals were being imposed? We have all heard of these moral woes that are in the bible. the beatings, slavery, murder and warfare. All these horrible things happened at a time when people were "closer to god", when biblical religion was the system. Human beings lived in some of the worst, most horrible moral conditions ever known to humanity during these times - when this moral code was fresh and applied liberally. It was considered moral to own slaves, and this has changed.


So finally I ask this: have the moral changes that we have made since biblical times benefited humanity or done more harm? Consider also that if you are a woman, or have the wrong skin color in the age when biblical morals reigned supreme you most likely wouldn't even be able to use the computer you'll type your reply on.

[DaniMae1]

I don't know the origins of morals but I do know that it is NOT from the bible. Contrary to popular beliefs.

[Eresh]

I believe morals had origins from the times when humans first came about and certain behaviors were necessary for the "clan's" survival (i.e. working together to hunt rather than killing each other). As a societal construct, some moral values have changed over time because society has changed (i.e. slavery is no longer acceptable in most places).

[cleatis]

As far as I'm concerned yes, our morals and values came about from necessity to start banding together into society. I am of the mind that morals are pretty much a social phenomenon.

I was mostly trying to see how the idea of a god given code stands up to scrutiny.

[ocpaul20]

You cannot lump all humanity together. Different cultures have grown up with different morals. in some places it is acceptable for a man to marry a girl child, in others it is not. In some cultures it is acceptable to have many wives and in others it is not.

So, it is not about the breakdown of morals but about the way different cultures have developed and are developing. Freezing the rule book in time and space like it is with the bible or other religious books is like forcing a straight jacket on a culture.

I really dont know how you would police a society's morals in a perfect world. It is a question that I leave to others who are better equipped to know about these things.

[cleatis]

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

You cannot lump all humanity together. Different cultures have grown up with different morals. in some places it is acceptable for a man to marry a girl child, in others it is not. In some cultures it is acceptable to have many wives and in others it is not.

So, it is not about the breakdown of morals but about the way different cultures have developed and are developing. Freezing the rule book in time and space like it is with the bible or other religious books is like forcing a straight jacket on a culture.

I really dont know how you would police a society's morals in a perfect world. It is a question that I leave to others who are better equipped to know about these things.

EXACTLY! there is not, couldn't have been and can never be a set of morals that can apply to all civilizations. The very fact that long standing civilizations have such different moral codes is evidence that morals are a man made thing.

[cleatis]

I'm gonna bump this up a bit.

I still haven't found much of an answer to my last question. I was hoping that I could hear from the religious crowd.

I'll try a shorter post this time as I assume that is the reason for the lack of input here. So those of you in the religious crowd: Given the sway away from many moral standards of biblical times... Have the moral changes to society since biblical times benefited us or have they taken us closer to hell?

[Mr Floyd]

everything we need to know, we learned in kindergarden...

[Mr Floyd]

Originally Posted by cleatis

I'm gonna bump this up a bit.

I still haven't found much of an answer to my last question. I was hoping that I could hear from the religious crowd.

I'll try a shorter post this time as I assume that is the reason for the lack of input here. So those of you in the religious crowd: Given the sway away from many moral standards of biblical times... Have the moral changes to society since biblical times benefited us or have they taken us closer to hell?

Maybe this is hell.

[AREQUIPA]

I'm in. I think that morality is better explained as human behaviour, part evolved instinct, part tradition and part reasoned. It does not stack up as a God - implanted moral compass.