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The Ethiopian Orthodox Church (another Oriental Orthodox Church) is certainly a very old church but not older than the Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem, which was founded in the early part of the 1st century.
Archaeologists in Jordan claim to have unearthed the world's oldest Christian church.
A team led by Dr. Abdul Qader al-Hassan discovered a cave under the ancient Christian church of St. Georgeous in Rihab, in northern Jordan. The archaeologists claim the cave dates from the period between the years 33 and 70 and that the site was both a dwelling place and a site of early Christian worship. This would mean it was used by Christians in the years immediately following the death of Jesus in Jerusalem.
"We have evidence to believe that this church sheltered the early Christians: the 70 disciples of Jesus Christ," al-Hassan told The Jordan Times.
He said that a mosaic inscription on the floor of the Church of St. Georgeous refers to "the 70 beloved by God and Divine."
The cave would have been used by these early Christians who came to Rihab to flee Roman persecution in Jerusalem, al-Hassan said.
The practice of Christian rituals in the Holy Land was banned by the Roman authorities until the year 313.
The earliest established sites of Christian worship in the region date from the 3rd century, and the claims of al-Hassan and his team have yet to be fully tested.
In November 2005, Israeli archaeologists made similar claims for a site at Megiddo, near the biblical Armageddon. They discovered ancient mosaics within the grounds of a prison. There is some skepticism within the archeological community about this latest discovery as it claims to be so much older than existing Christian churches.
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Well, the timeline and information in this article fits in with the timeline and information I provided in previous posts.
I stated in an earlier post that the first persecution of Christians in Jerusalem took place around 40 A.D. leading many Christians to flee Jerusalem. The article claims that the cave dates from the period between 33 and 70 and that the cave would have been used by Christians who were escaping Roman persecution in Jerusalem.
Apparently, this new finding confirms the conclusions of the various historians and theologians who claim that the Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem is the oldest Christian sect.
Those are good informative posts, Verdor and I repped you accordingly.
Which is earliest is difficult to decide because of the questionable qality of the early records and the tendency of the Constantine Church to weed the files as they say, to ensure that the records showed the official view.
The question is I suppose to what extent the Antioch church was Jewish or gentile. If Jewish, it has gone and we have to look to Greek or Roman. If Paul is to be believed, there was a Roman church before Paul ever went there. i am inclined to doubt the legends about various apostles beetling off to India or Afghanistan to found an early Church with which later converts could identify.
However, the real question at the back of this is, which is the Real Christianity? Which is the original and therefore the best? The question comes down to two things - how far back the authority of the Bishop of Rome goes and to what extent the Gnostic nutters of Egypt can be considered a worthwhile church.
I very much doubt that Simon Peter ever went to Rome and became 'pope' because he was of the Jewish Church, not the Pauline. Hovever, if he did it was as a representative of the apostolic Jewish line, not of anything gentile. but I can't prove that so it's a personal view. It just means that rabbitting to me about the Pope having the keys of heaven is not going to sway me much.
The papyri being found in Egypt are fascinating and the gospel of Judas, Mary and the rest give an interesting slant on 'other' views of the character and status of those somewhat sidelined apostles.
Yet I can't help feeling that Gospel of the NT plus Paul is where the meat is and the other gospels come across to me as later work designed to press other theological lines, such as the dualist Good god/bad god idea of the Judas text. The gospel of Mary does interest me though. Yep, I have this feeling that she was far more than just an ex - slapper who was up early enough to be at the tomb Sunday morning.
Thank you, Arequipa. I am so glad you found my posts to be informative.
All records, regardless of what religion, government or society are subject to distortion and doctoring. Professional historians and theologians tend to look at different sources of information that confirm each other when making conclusions about what happened in the past.
There are conflicting reports about what type of contact Peter had with Rome, if he had any contact with Rome at all. Some have claimed he never visited Rome or even Italy, some say that he may have visited Rome at the end of his life but had no role in the Roman Church (which wasn't that organized or even a church at the time), some say he had a small role in the Roman Church and others say he was a leader in the Church. The evidence is clear that Peter had a great role in Jerusalem and then Antioch. There are those who claim he was martyred in the Middle East while others say it was in Greece or Rome. Then there are those who claim that there were two Peters with differing roles in Christianity and these two Peters have been confused with each other.
Most historians and theologians tend to agree that the Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem has the strongest claim to being the oldest, continuous Christian sect. Rome did not even have an official church until the 3rd century and before that there was only an evangelising mission run by Greek migrants from individual churches in the East. This evangelising mission had to compete with the pagan gods and Mithraism, which was another eastern religion similar in character to Christianity. The Roman Church remained junior to other churches, even in the West for well over 200 years.
Even though Rome had no particular link with the distant land of Jerusalem, Palestine and the Middle East and had no great theologians as Alexandria, Ephesus, Antioch and Jerusalem did, the early Christians wanted to turn Rome into an important Christian center because Rome was the center of the world at that time. They got their wish although they didn't live to see its fruition - Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire.
Although the Greek Orthodox Church may be the oldest, continuous Christian sect, that doesn't mean that it is the best or most real Christian religion and I would never claim that any religion is the best or most real religion. As long as a religion provides comfort, spiritual enlightenment, peace and love for everyone, it is a real religion. Every religion has had problems with corruption, scandals, oppression and violence but we should remember that it is the people who abuse their religious authority and who interpret religion in an oppressive way that create the corruption and scandals - not the religion itself.
The Ethiopian Orthodox Church (another Oriental Orthodox Church) is certainly a very old church but not older than the Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem, which was founded in the early part of the 1st century.
the Hebrews(12 Tribes of Israel) are the original Christians. Everything Christian starts from them.
The Romans cloaked themselves in Christianity to gain influence over the people to control them to this very day. But they are not Christians. Nothing about the Pope is Christian. Nothing.
the Hebrews(12 Tribes of Israel) are the original Christians. Everything Christian starts from them.
Including circumcision, Saturday sabbath and and kosher food?
Quote:
The Romans cloaked themselves in Christianity to gain influence over the people to control them to this very day. But they are not Christians. Nothing about the Pope is Christian. Nothing.
I suppose it depends upon what one means by 'Christian'. Looking in the Gospel, it appears that no-one is.
the Hebrews(12 Tribes of Israel) are the original Christians. Everything Christian starts from them.
The Romans cloaked themselves in Christianity to gain influence over the people to control them to this very day. But they are not Christians. Nothing about the Pope is Christian. Nothing.
I think we are crossing some grey lines with Hebrews being christian. Sort of like saying man is a sea squirt because they evolved from the same slime. I can accept a lot of the strange traditions christian practice come from Hebrew mythology, but the Hebrews took many of those from other religions prior to them so in reality christian are just a continuation of a long line of sun god religions.
I don’t disagree with you on Rome, or the catholic church. I see them as a pseudo political organization controlled by greed and hunger for power.
In my opinion catholic faith is the oldest form of christianity but then I am a devoted roman catholic too .
So if the Catholic faith is not the oldest form of Christianity then the Catholic faith is not as good? That is not the correct way to think.
When I say that the Greek Orthodox faith may be the oldest, continuous Christian sect I am simply trying to state a fact that many historians and theologians have researched. I am not saying that because the Greek Orthodox faith may be the oldest Christian faith that it is automatically the best Christian faith.
As I stated in an earlier post, if you believe that the oldest religion is the best religion then Christianity would lose. The Jewish faith, the Hindu faith, the Buddhist faith, the animist faith and several other faiths are all older than Christianity. The Hindu faith is commonly believed to be the oldest, continuously practiced faith in the world, stretching back to prehistorical times. Are you going to switch from Catholicism to Hinduism because you have to worship in the oldest faith? Do you believe that the oldest faith is the best faith?
If you find spiritual enlightenment, peace, comfort, love for everyone including yourself in the Catholic faith then that is the best faith for you. How old the Catholic faith or any faith may be is irrelevant.
The Catholic Church can trace its Popes from Peter on down to the current one. If you read the Bible it is very clear that Jesus appointed Peter as the first Pope. There is also evidence that the Apostles deferred to him. Likewise all priests can trace their lineage from one of the Apostles. When a priest is ordained there is a "laying on of hands" by a Bishop in Apostolic Succession.
The Catholic Church can trace its Popes from Peter on down to the current one. If you read the Bible it is very clear that Jesus appointed Peter as the first Pope. There is also evidence that the Apostles deferred to him. Likewise all priests can trace their lineage from one of the Apostles. When a priest is ordained there is a "laying on of hands" by a Bishop in Apostolic Succession.
Many Christian churches claim Apostolic Succession and have various ordination ceremonies. That does not mean they are the oldest.
Peter was never a Pope. The first leader of the Catholic Church to officially use the title "Pope" was Boniface. The Catholic Church went back and called former leaders of the Church "Popes."
While the Bible may claim that Jesus appointed Peter as the leader of the Apostles and the church, it does not use the word "Pope" nor does it mention what church of which Peter was the leader. Many doubt wheter Peter had any connection with Rome at all. Peter did convert many people to Christianity in Jerusalem. Therefore, as I said in earlier posts, the Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem has the strongest claim to being the oldest, continuous Christian sect. Read my earlier posts for more details.
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