Religious Proof (salvation, Islam, Holy Spirit, quote)

[MontanaGuy]

I also think that Jesus did exist. There are other historical figures from the same time period who interacted with Jesus such as the Roman officials like Pontius Pilate who ordered his crucifixtion. When you look at all of the supporting historical evidence it seems to be very strong that he did in fact exist. Of course the basis for a religion is not the everyday mundane sorts of activities that people engage in all the time, it's got to be something of a supernatural nature or something so extraordinary that it's not a normal occurance. I happen to agree with the post that suggested that Jesus was probably a gifted orator and charismatic individual who greatly influenced people but he really had no supernatural abilities. Saying that he was a myth is not exactly accurate though because he very likely did exist. I think you could say that the miracles he supposedly did and his resurrection would be described as mythology from an atheist's point of view but not his existence as a living human being.

[timlinville]

I have seen many interesting shows on the History channel. There seems to be alot of things we now have uncovered to suggest he did exist. Your present faith should tell you what happened to him next.

[stretch00]

Originally Posted by dncngrl1964

because He didn't talk to you....He doesn't exist

I have written letters to the President and he has never spoken to me

I guess he doesn't exist either

But there is other evidence that the president exists. There really is not evidence for the existence of the christian god. Or any other religion's god for that matter, but most posters here are christian, so that is what I will address.

[james203]

the bottom line is jesus died for our sins and he loves us all.we are his children.amen.......

[dncngrl1964]

Originally Posted by stretch00

But there is other evidence that the president exists. There really is not evidence for the existence of the christian god. Or any other religion's god for that matter, but most posters here are christian, so that is what I will address.

Can you tell me how life began?... not human life ...any life.... where did that first spark of life come from?

[stretch00]

Originally Posted by blue62

Thanks for this post stretch..I can better understand you now..There's an old saying, "If at first you don't succeed, try try again" I don't quote chapter and verse, but another famous saying says something about coming to the lord with the faith of a child..Love blue

I think that there is another quote that goes something like: "repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results"

The fact of the matter is that I am somewhat beyond all of that now. I have done very extensive reading on the matter of religion. I have read Strobel, and C.S. Lewis. Bertrand Russell and Thomas Aquinas. The list goes on. The bible in several different translations, even if the Greek thing did not work out for me. The Koran, Tao te Ching, etc. I have studied philosophy and logic, and gone to bible studies.

My atheism has not been lightly thought out, and my decision came about as a result of an overwhelming mountain of evidence. Emotional appeals are not adequate, the logic & history are against the existence of the christian god, and the conduct, tactics and disingenious deceptions of church leaders and apologists cast doubt upon anything that they say in any case.

I no longer have the faith of a child, and that is not coming back. I simply know too much for christianity to be credible.

[stretch00]

Originally Posted by dncngrl1964

Can you tell me how life began?... not human life ...any life.... where did that first spark of life come from?

No. Not specifically. Current theories as to abiogenisis postulate common chemical reactions forming simple organic (carbon bases) compounds. The compounds in turn may have reacted with one another to form more complex compounds, eventually culminating in a self-replicating ancestor to RNA.

This is irrelevant to christianity though, or any other religion.

You also do not know how life began. You can say god did it, but you do not know this, or how he did it, or that if he did it, the god that started it all need not necessarily be the christian god.

Basically you are arguing from a point of ignorance, but postulation god as an answer.

This does not give us any attributes of god.

I could go one step farther back. Do you know how god started?

[dncngrl1964]

Originally Posted by stretch00

No. Not specifically. Current theories as to abiogenisis postulate common chemical reactions forming simple organic (carbon bases) compounds. The compounds in turn may have reacted with one another to form more complex compounds, eventually culminating in a self-replicating ancestor to RNA.

This is irrelevant to christianity though, or any other religion.

You also do not know how life began. You can say god did it, but you do not know this, or how he did it, or that if he did it, the god that started it all need not necessarily be the christian god.

Basically you are arguing from a point of ignorance, but postulation god as an answer.

This does not give us any attributes of god.

I could go one step farther back. Do you know how god started?

God said he created life
and as a believer in God
That works for me


Why would you have to go BACK one step to find the creation of God?

[stretch00]

Originally Posted by dncngrl1964

God said he created life
and as a believer in God
That works for me

So you really have no proof. Additinally, you are relying on the Bible for your beliefs, and the only proof of the bible, is ...the bible. That is circular logic.

Originally Posted by dncngrl1964

Why would you have to go BACK one step to find the creation of God?

Not because I secretly believe in god, if that is what you are implying. I was replying to what I thought (correctly as it turns out) your answer would be.

[dncngrl1964]

Originally Posted by stretch00

So you really have no proof. Additinally, you are relying on the Bible for your beliefs, and the only proof of the bible, is ...the bible. That is circular logic.



Not because I secretly believe in god, if that is what you are implying. I was replying to what I thought (correctly as it turns out) your answer would be.

I do not ONLY read the bible
I have read several books I only wish that more of the required reading was not lost as in

The Book of the War of the Lord
Numbers21:14-15

Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel
IKings 16:20

Book of Jasher
IISamuel 1:18

I wonder what information these books might have given