why dont we see the rest light of the sun? (philosophy, Earth)
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yeshuasavedme wrote:
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the sun is set on a course/path/highway and orbits the earth.
You are the only person I know of living in modern times who believes this to be true.
Your knowledge is limited to your own sphere and reflects only the opinions of those whom you hang out with.
The Geocentric creation belief is held by many scientists and Bible believing persons in this age, in spite of the indoctrination by the unbelieving to the masses.
I hang out with Jesus the Christ, who never changes and whose words are always true. He says the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.
Bellarmine Theological Forum | Online Store - Galileo Was Wrong: The Church Was Right Vols. 1 & 2 (Books) (Powered by CubeCart) (http://www.catholicintl.com/cubecart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=9 - broken link)
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"Sungenis and Bennett examine the anomalies that arise from the Copernican model...A must read for those who can set aside prejudices and a priori assumptions" (Joseph Strada, Ph.D. Aerospace Engineering)
Your knowledge is limited to your own sphere and reflects only the opinions of those whom you hang out with.
Unfortunately I never got to hang out with Galileo since he was born in the 1500's. It is an irrefutable fact that the earth and the other planets orbit the sun. There is no serious scientist in the world who would suggest otherwise. Yes, the sun would appear to be orbiting the earth if you were an illiterate peasant 500 years ago and didn't know that the earth is round and that it is spinning on it's axis which creates this illusion. Someone from that time period wouldn't have the benefit of centuries of scientific discoveries and really couldn't be blamed for believing such a thing.
I'm glad that you hang out with Jesus. Does he stop by the house for a cup of coffee from time to time? That sounds very nice but the next time he comes over why don't you ask him directly if the sun really revolves around the earth and see what he says. It would be great if you could get a video of this conversation and post it on the forum.
Dear Moonsun.... even if your Koran correctly postulated, without question, in clear language, the theory of relativity, the Pythagorean theorem, or Pi accurate out to a thousand decimal places it still does not prove the existence of Allah.
Each fact that your Koran claims to be true must stand on it's own. Just because it mentions one scientific truth does not mean all of Koran is true. Each one, each and every individual claim, must be individually vetted and validated and verified scientifically.
All of this for yet another logical fallacy.
Dear scarmig
elwill wrote
i agree with your logic "book got something right and it was written 1400 years ago does not make the entire book correct" .
but , do you know about possibilities ? it's mathematical concept .
i will agree with you that existence of one or two or even 10 correct verses(scientifically) dosn't necessery to prove divinity of quran
but what about if this book is full with scientific concepts , from evey kind you can imagine of sciences [Medical , physics , anatomy , universe , genetics , biology , astronomy , marine life , zoology , Botany , poetry , historically and numeric ....... etc] and 100% of these verses are correct scientifically
all of that came by illiterate man , lived in desert among pagans who claimed about himself to be prophet and quran is God's word not him
do you know that there is verse in quran , God sweared by the position of stars the verse says And I swear by the stars' positions-and that is a mighty oath if you(people) only knew. (Qur'an, 56:75-76)
why he didn't swear by just stars ? why he specify the position of the stars to be more greatest ? focus on this scentific informations
when a star consumes all its fuel collapses in on itself, eventually turning into a black hole with infinite density and zero volume and an immensely powerful magnetic field. We are unable to see black holes even with the most powerful telescope, because their gravitational pull is so strong that light is unable to escape from them. However, such a collapsed star can be perceived by means of the effect it has on the surrounding area.
my point is the stars we see in the sky by our eyes not really the stars it self , we just preceived it by means of the effect it has on the surrounding area which means that we don't know the position of the stars(black holes) even by most powerfull telescope because the light unable to escape from gravitational pull
why in the world , man autherize a book and claims it's divinity then swear by the star's position and comment on this oath as to be mighty oath !!!!!
"Your knowledge is limited to your own sphere and reflects only the opinions of those whom you hang out with.
The Geocentric creation belief is held by many scientists and Bible believing persons in this age, in spite of the indoctrination by the unbelieving to the masses."
"Many"? I want to see a list of at least 5. Frankly, even one would do, but let's have some sort of statistically valid sampling. Versus, you know, the "opinions" tens of millions of real scientists out there. Those "opinions" you mention are the accumulated conclusions, determined through careful research, of millions of studies. Else, nothing we use every day would work.
Contrary to your baseless insinuations, they are, of course, not some casual, off-handed, slightly drunken mental blurt-f@rts made by illiterate fools.
Purposeful "indoctrination"? You accuse us of that? Wow!
(BTW, I'm going to state, categorically, that anyone, in this day and age, who claims to be (1) scientist and who also (2) believes that the universe orbits the Earth, is, by definition, not a scientist. I hereby cancel his or her claim to that title. And that's official! Science demands logic, observation and an ability to accept revisions to our general knowledge.)
It is an irrefutable fact that the earth and the other planets orbit the sun. There is no serious scientist in the world who would suggest otherwise. .
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Rifleman:
"Many"? I want to see a list of at least 5. Frankly, even one would do, but let's have some sort of statistically valid sampling.
I gave you a link -go begin to do your own searches. See what these men say @ the link
Gerardus Bouw, Ph.D (Astronomy)
Neville Jones, Ph.D (Physics[/SIZE])
]Joseph Strada, Ph.D (Aerospace Engineering
Russell T. Arndts, Ph.D., (Chemistry, LSU
"...there is no relative difference between a fixed Earth in a rotating star-system and a rotating Earth in a fixed star-system, and there is no way for modern science to prove the latter."
yeshuasavedme,
Let me ask you a few questions regarding your beliefs if you don't mind. You have stated that you think the moon and the sun are exactly the same size and both orbit the earth. If that were the case why do we have tides that are caused by the gravitational pull from the moon but nothing from the sun? Also, do you believe that man has landed on the moon and sent various probes to other planets? If we were observing the earth from the moon wouldn't we have been able to see the sun orbiting our planet if that was true? Someone also mentioned that when an eclipse occurs that the moon passes in front of the sun which is quite obvious but if they were exactly the same size that would mean that they would also be the same distance from the earth because the moon covers the sun completely during a full eclipse. However, that would mean that they should crash into each other doesn't it?
yeshuasavedme,
Let me ask you a few questions regarding your beliefs if you don't mind. You have stated that you think the moon and the sun are exactly the same size and both orbit the earth. If that were the case why do we have tides that are caused by the gravitational pull from the moon but nothing from the sun? Also, do you believe that man has landed on the moon and sent various probes to other planets? If we were observing the earth from the moon wouldn't we have been able to see the sun orbiting our planet if that was true? Someone also mentioned that when an eclipse occurs that the moon passes in front of the sun which is quite obvious but if they were exactly the same size that would mean that they would also be the same distance from the earth because the moon covers the sun completely during a full eclipse. However, that would mean that they should crash into each other doesn't it?
You know, if you had really read the things I have posted which you have scorned, then you would not ask the same-o, same-o.
Enoch says they are the same size, but that would not include the distance of the pillars of "fire' sent out.
As to the tides and the sun, I have never said the sun was the same distance from earth as the moon; and as to that, I did say that, as a Bible Believer who reads 1 Enoch, the distance to the sun, moon and stars is not what modern science calculates. I also said that the force needed to travel to the heavenly bodies is great because of having to overcome the great force holding earth and all on it in its fixed place in the creation.
I have no idea how far the sun is from earth, nor does anyone else here, because of the unknown factor of the force holding the universe together.
So men make a formula to travel to the heavenly bodies and they can get spaceships to them by their formulas, but they err in what they are dealing with, which is not millions of miles, but great and mighty forces forces set in place by the Creator in His stretched out heavens.
Biblically speaking, the earth as a globe of water was before the heavens. There was no atmosphere or "space" before day 2, and the heavens were made by the dividing of the waters of this globe, with half of them being separated above the stretched out heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are placed to orbit on their daily courses. So the waters are above the heavens which the Creator stretched out, and below the heavens, and then, even below the land mass which He called to come forth, from the waters below, on day 3.
And if you had read what I have written here before which you were always adamantly against even considering looking into the historical documents written by the ancients, then you would know that I believe ancient man not only went to the moon, but to the stars, and that the ancient Chinese built a crystal castle on the moon, many thousands of years ago.
The Mahabharata and the Ramayana [both, I think] speak of space travel in many kinds of ships using many kinds of propulsion, before atomic wars wiped out whole civilizations of such "technological progressives".
Enoch says that the fallen sons of God taught the "mysteries of heaven which men were struggling to learn" to the race of Adam, and only violence and war was the end result of such advanced technology on earth, pre-flood.
The Mahabharata and Ramayana prove that what the "gods" [the fallen watchers] and their offspring did with such technology was only for evil purposes and destruction. Its no different today.
And if you had read what I have written here before which you were always adamantly against even considering looking into the historical documents written by the ancients, then you would know that I believe ancient man not only went to the moon, but to the stars, and that the ancient Chinese built a crystal castle on the moon, many thousands of years ago.
Can't you hear how that sounds? We've photographed the moon in great detail but somehow missed the crystal castle.
Getting back to the sun it is completely accepted by everyone that it takes a year for the earth to orbit the sun and the angle at which the light strikes the surface of the earth is the reason we have four seasons and why the northern and southern hemisphere have their seasons reversed so when it's summer in Australia it's winter in Europe. This is something that grade school children can understand. Given your beliefs it would seem that you think that the sun orbits the earth every single day so I ask you, what exactly is the measurement of a year actually measuring?
Before I started reading your posts I had never heard of Enoch and he's not exactly considered a common source of knowledge by any civilization that I'm aware of.
And by the way, we do know the distance from the earth to the sun, it's approximately 93 million miles which is why it looks so much smaller than it really is and the moon is about a quarter of a million miles if I recall correctly but it's much smaller than the earth. Also, massive objects don't orbit little bitty ones, it's the other way around because their gravitational force is so strong. I would suggest putting your book of Enoch into the nearest dumpster and enrolling in some basic science classes. You might learn something.
Einstein said: "Either coordinate system could be used with equal justification. The two sentences: the sun is at rest and the Earth moves, or the sun moves and the Earth is at rest, would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different coordinate systems." (The Evolution of Physics: From Early Concepts to Relativity and Quanta, Albert Einstein and Leopold Infeld, New York, Simon and Schuster, 1938, 1966, p. 212.)
Now, theoretically, this is exactly correct, if you limit yourself to the two items: the sun and the Earth. In fact, as I mentioned earlier, you can happily consider that it's the planet moving under your car as you speed north up I-5 to Seattle, and not your car moving over the surface of the Earth.
The problem comes when we try to bake the movements of all the other planets and distant suns into this screwball proposition. Common sense rears it's nasty little head, as usual. Why, you ask?
Well, back to you in your car. It may work if it's just you on the freeway, but what about the cars going the other way? South? Or getting off, slowing down and traveling at right-angles to the freeway? How exactly would you then explain that it's you that's still, and the Earth is conveniently moving under you?
Now, if we assume a stationary Earth relative to these cars, it suddenly all works properly,. You can stop at the rest stop, stop for lunch, stop for the night, and return the next day. The Earth doesn't care.
Ditto for observations of both our solar system, and the other heavenly bodies. You assume we have no accurate means of measuring their distance, or their motion relative to us. Not so; simply not so.
And so, what do we find? Among other things, we find the entire universe is expanding, not rotating around us. We also find, through simple parallax measurements (if you don't understand that, I'm not going to explain: google it, and learn) that we are, absolutely moving around the sun, at a measurable rate. WE also now know that we are closing on another galaxy, Andromeda, such that we will collide in a few hundred million years. Oppps; you don't collide with things that orbit you.
But finally, the simple, demonstrable and proven laws of physics require that we orbit that massive sun within a balance of centripetal (outward) forces against the pull of the sun,'s gravitational mass. It just happens to all work out perfectly, which is reasonable, else we'd not be here to measure anything.
The measured relative motions of the planets, the measured distance to the sun (remember the research satellite that went out past the sun, and reported back with radio waves that travel at a known speed. Why did it take longer and longer for those signals to get back to us, and also coincide directly with our already-known distance measurements to the sun? Huh?
You can ignore or dis-allow all you want, but that does not make you, nor those relativistic theoretical physicists right.
The evidence, my dear, the evidence. Your amazing lack of scientific knowledge notwithstanding, it's all in the evidence.
Too bad about your too-literal interpretation of that bible though, huh?
If the sun orbits the earth, then why haven't the satellites (and hubble) picked it up? Why does the planet have variations in temperature (the seasons, like another poster stated). If the sun orbited the earth as close as you all say it does, then it would always be summer and the night/day cycle would be a bit different.
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