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So back to the Nativity.........I think it should stay. I'd walk in rain, ice and snow to put it back there.
I'd be first in line to carry it. Maybe we should make a long line from its storage place to the Nativity.
When I was small........I'd look from my car window and see the Nativity set up. It always made me smile. On TV tonight they showed the scene....empty. That really is such a shame.......
It needs to be there and shine as it has through the years. It is a" forever thing.".....not to be discarded because of a few radical people mouthing off. ( Ohhhh did Summering say that?)
it the Nativity is such a part of your tradition, why isn't it displayed outside your home...
I agree 100 percent. Let's pray for shoegal, sounds like she needs some prayer.
I don't need prayers from you or anyone else on this board. I have more than enough people who love and care for me thank you very much. Nor am I someone who cares what any of you think about me. My family and friends know me... YOU DON'T... and yet you feel the need to make incorrect judgements about me. Save "your prayers" for someone who cares what you think of them.
Last edited by shoegal111; 12-17-2009 at 05:19 PM..
it the Nativity is such a part of your tradition, why isn't it displayed outside your home...
Texan.........how do you know its not?
I have many a Nativity( I think about three).....One hand carved........and a beautiful huge carving of the three Wise Men. Carved by my husband and painted by me.
I empathize with those Christians who feel something is being taken away from them. But I must emphasize that a courthouse isn't just for Christians; a courthouse isn't just for Jews; a courthouse isn't just for the religious. The Luzerne County Courthouse is for everyone.
To be perfectly fair, this has turned into one big "shoegal bashing" thread! People on both sides of the issue need to take a deep breath and perhaps find some middle ground!
I am going to weigh in with my opinion - and most likely in the process offend someone on one side or the other - and take a lot of backlash in the process - but please listen to what I have to say.
Firstly, for those of you who think I am a knee jerk, liberal who will automatically be against any holiday display you are wrong. I am a moderate democrat and a member of a moderate branch of the Protestant Church.
PERSONALLY I enjoy holiday displays! Weather it be a menorah, a Christmas tree or a simple candle lit in each window to welcome friends and family - or metaphorically, the coming of the Christ child I like lights! They're pretty and festive! I am not PERSONALLY upset when I see a religiously oriented display in a public or municipal building. But that's just me. I might have a problem if my child was told to make an art project in public school displaying a religious or Biblical scene related to either of the two dominant faiths. I think that is best left to Sunday school. However I doubt that I would complain.
BUT that's just me. It could offend someone.
I find it hard myself to reconcile all of the unpopular and sometimes wildly offensive stances taken by the ACLU - defending neo Nazis right to parade "peacefully" ( If a parade of Nazis could be called "peaceful" is a question in and of itself) through a town filled with Holocaust survivors is pretty odious, in most people's book - as happened in Skokie ILL in the 70s - I think. Defending NAMBLA in any way shape or form, is not something I could do if I were a lawyer.
And yet something seems to tell me that we do need some folks to do these things.
There are people who think that this is a "Christian nation" and frankly I have no idea where they get that idea. The Founding Fathers were indeed white Anglo-Saxon Protestant men. We do not know how observant they were of their particular branches of Christianity. None of them were fundamentalist Christians so it is safe to say that they were not "born again" or baptized by full immersion as is practiced by many of the most out spoken right leaning denominations. It is safe to say that they did not speak in tongues
What we DO KNOW about then is that many of them held slaves. Quite a few were members of a secret society known as the Freemasons, which is condemned but most conservative churches - including Roman Catholics, Baptists, Missouri Synod Lutherans and most if not all Pentecostal bodies.
We as Americans enjoy both freedom of religion and freedom from religion! Religious persecution and state sanctioned churches have brought many an immigrant to our shores.
But back to the decoration issue. I understand why each side feels as strongly as they do. Some folks think that there is a plot to take away Christmas and other people do not have positive memories of church or religious celebrations, Indeed some are survivors of "religious abuse", or abuse conducted at the hands of someone who claimed to be a follower of Christ, as Shoegal has stated.
I am not a person who has suffered that way and the display of Holiday lights or decorations of any sort makes me personally happy! I do not see the big deal for myself and complaining about this strikes a lot of people as a bit absurd. As long as both major faiths are represented I think its fine.
I would like to add that at this point at least most Americans come from "Judeo-Christion" backgrounds, and both holidays have transcended the religious and become part of our culture - for better or for worse so to not recognize the Holiday Season seems silly. To me at least. Also you will not find a Christmas tree or a Menorah in an Islamic, Buddhist or Hindu nation!
One compromise that comes to mind is to make a Winter Display on public buildings - snowmen white lights etc. and save the religious items for privately owned places such as homes and churches.The advantage would also be that people could enjoy the display all through the bleak winter.
Again for the record I LIKE holiday decorations no mater what religion they are from. I also know people who are not religious or are Unitarian or Pagan or members of ethical culture groups who would prefer the winter theme.
But lets all try to understand each others viewpoints and show a little tolerance and compassion - which I believe in at the heart of the Gospel message. .
sheena, no one is bashing shoegal. We are mad about the fact that everyone wants to try and take Christmas away from us. If we stay strong in our faith, we will not allow this to happen. We don't want a secular nation and taking away the nativity is bogus and I don't care if it offends anyone, just like I don't care if it offends anyone if I say "Merry Christmas". I've been doing it all of my life and I'm not going to stop just to appease certain people.
Oh, I guess the fact that the nuns and priest beat the crap out of them have nothing what so ever to do with any of it. As far a Muslims blowing themselves up, i didn't say that was right either. I subscribe to no organized religion because I believe they have all been corrupted or bastardized in one form or another for a purpose other than to serve god. I'm a "Do Unto Others".
It may be in the case of a few(?) of your friends the nuns did wrong. Do you or they think this is what the church advocates?
I wonder how your Muslim friend would have fared in a Muslim country's schools. Oh, wait, if it was a girl maybe she wouldn't have been able to attend any school.
You are entitled to believe that no religion is intended to serve God. Just for the record, there are millions and millions who disagree. I doubt that even you think they are all stupid....do you? I mean really.
I hope the 'belief system' you and yours will create serves you well for a long life. I also hope you aren't 'keeping score' by dollars earned or places seen. Many of us have been there and done that too. I wish you well in your journey.
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