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I hope you're not expecting an adequate response this time.
You guys can't twist the arguments into meaning something else without being dishonest. If you read the thread then you know full well the Leviticus text was there to show how easily one can refer to homosexuality without using the actual word 'homosexual'. I go by the New Testament text which is as clear about it as Levitus, if not clearer.
Here is another example of how Bible refers to homosexuality without using the word itself:
Rom.1,26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
.
.
And this goes for the church in Denver and any member of that church:
Though they know God's decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them.
or
1Tim.1,8 Now we know that the law is good, if any one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, immoral persons, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the glorious gospel of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
or
1Cor.6,9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts (NIV: nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders, NJB: the self-indulgent, sodomites), nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
The Greek words used in the Bible (New Testament) to describe homosexuals are malakos and arsenokoites, the passive and active partners in anal intercourse. Can it get any clearer than that?
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 12-21-2009 at 07:31 AM..
You guys can't twist the arguments to meaning something else. If you read the thread then you know full well the Leviticus text was there to show how easily one can refer to homosexuality without using the actual word 'homosexual'. I go by the New Testament text which is as clear about it as Levitus, if not clearer.
But the New Testament discussion is also taken out of context and is based on the teachings of Paul, not Jesus. In case you weren't aware Paul is a human, just like you and me. Also I call myself a Christian, not a Paulian.
Oh yeah, what are your thoughts on women remaining silent? Paul didn't like that either.
The problem is that homosexuality is referred to as sin in many places in the Bible including many places in new testament. I posted some earlier on.
I added the example in Leviticus to show the other poster how easy it is to refer to homosexuality without using the word 'homosexual' which he said did not come to existance untile 1800s.
You completely missed my point of looking at the original words, the context in which they were written and the context in which they should be read. Jaymax is far closer to the mark than you are.
Finish the story. Yes Jesus protected the woman caught in adultery (there is no evidence she was a prostitute) from stoning. But then he admonished her to "Go and sin no more." So Jesus did not ognore the fact that adultery is sin. If you want to apply that story to homosexuals they would be welcomed in church but admonished that continuing in that lifestyle is sin. I suspect that gays would not find such a church "welcoming."
You do know that story was a later addition don't you?
But anyway, I wonder why Jesus didn't tell the Roman centurion and his "beloved" servant to go and sin no more? The Greek word "pais" (which is translated simply as servant in many english versions), was often used in secular writings of the time to describe the younger partner in a homosexual pairing.
And what about Jesus's reference to men who were "born" eunuchs? The word was not just used in secular writings around that time to describe men who had been castrated, but was also used to describe men who were born with no interest in women.
Don't forget the naked man in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus went to pray. A pick-up spot for gays in their time? Having been there, one could certainly hide behind some of the trees
Sorry, I have to correct you. According to "your interpretation" of the Bible. There are many different interpretations, hence all the different denominations. My church is Presbyterian and accepts gay people as they are. My personal belief is that people who are rabidly anti-gay seek out churches that are the same, using the Bible to justify hatred.
My belief is that people create God in their own image. It's amazing how some people's God hates the same people they do.
I see that Christians who are loving and accepting of others themselves, tend to to believe in a God who is loving and accepting of all people.
I see that someone who is judgemental, angry, self-righteous and bigoted tends to believe in a God that is is also judgemental, angry, "righteous" and bigoted.
Encouraging someone to study the Bible for themselves to find the truth is not being judgemental. Nor is it judgemental to point out the Bible condemns homosexuality. It is there black on white. I am merely telling what the Bible says, since there is so many misconceptions here. If you were a murderer, and I told you that according to the Bible murder is sin, would I be judgemental? No, I would merely be telling you what the Bible says about the matter.
And no, divorcees do not automatically end up in hell. Even murderers do not automatically go there, nor homosexuals. Once you come to Christ, it is all washed away. But if yo choose not to accept Christ as your saviour, then you will end up there.
I would encourage you too to study the verses I posted on my previous post and explain to me how I have misunderstood them.
I would certainly encourage you to study the Bible hermaneutically for yourself. Of course this would include doing some research into the cultures and customs in which it was written and researching secular texts of the times to compare language use.
I quoted from the bible, so it's really not my personal opinion.
No you quoted from an English translators interpretation. One who had their own personal opinion of what the verses meant. Tell us the name of the translator? Do you know?
How about you quote it from the earliest versions in Hebrew and Koine Greek. Translate it and tell us the rationale behind your personal interpretations. Include historical cultural references and usage of words and phrases cross-referenced with secular texts of the time.
Of course if you did all that, you'd realise those verses weren't referring to homosexuals at all.
Greek text referred to homosexuality. In ancient times they would have used whatever word is used to decribe homosexuality. Today the word is homosexuality. Or are you trying to say homosexuality itself did not exist until 1800s?
The word used by Paul (arsenokoitai) in 1 Cor and 1 Tim was not used to describe homosexuals in secular Greek literature at that time. It was never used by any of the anti-homosexual early church fathers either. Paul could have used several Greek words if he had meant homosexuals. He didn't.
1 Cor 6 was used to condemn masturbators for centuries before it was used to condemn homosexuals. Do your research.
The Greek words used in the Bible (New Testament) to describe homosexuals are malakos and arsenokoites, the passive and active partners in anal intercourse. Can it get any clearer than that?
Neither the context, nor the use of those words in secular texts support that particular interpretation at all.
Tell me, who decided to stop using that verse to condemn masturbators and start using it to condemn homosexuals instead?
You are really grasping at straws and it is obvious you have done little to no research on this topic.
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