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I don't deny that Christianity requires faith. All world views require faith.
Those believing that God does not exist do so on the basis of faith.
Is it more reasonable to believe that God does not exist?
Which God(s)?
Does your atheistic (yes YOU are an atheist) stance in regards to Enlil, Anubis, Thor, Odin, Zeus and the thousands of other Gods humanity has ever created require faith or is it just the application of rational thought and reason? Your god is not the "default" god and it is no less irrational to believe in Bible god than the gods you "know" do not exist.
Have you considered making application of these principles with respect to the atheistic world view? If so, perhaps you would be willing to debate, in detail, how atheism is more reasoned and rational than Christianity?
Take the challenge - after all, Marines have a reputation for "taking the bull by the horns" - don't they?
Yes, such as those believing that God does not exist.
Lynch mobs are established on such principles as well. The majority can and very often does get it wrong.
...but perhaps you don't believe in a 'right' or 'wrong' approach to anything.
Aren't you the same guy who could never answer the question of whether it was morally wrong to punish a child for the sins of his father?
Be that as it may, understand that I used to be a Christian until logic compelled me to admit that Christianity was a bunch of nonsense.
I'm a strong atheist, in the sense that I go further than just believing that there is not enough evidence to support the belief in a God. I believe the preponderance of the evidence suggest there is no God.
I'll be happy to debate whether or not there is more evidence for the non-existence of God than for the existence of a God, so long as (1) we predetermine a common definition for the word "God", (2) we don't have to go through the same tired old cliches that have been put to rest a million times on this board alone, (i.e. don't start off with a watchman analogy.), and (3) start a new thread.
I don't have all day today to post, so it may take a few days.
Those believing that God does not exist do so on the basis of faith.
Is it more reasonable to believe that God does not exist?
Atheists give no reasonable answer while, at the same time, proceeding to present themselves as having sole ownership of all reason and rationality.
If all the reason and rationality is on your side, then you have a great deal of detailed explaining to do. If you are unwilling or unable to do this, perhaps you should refrain from posting "troll like" responses.
In my hand I have a suitcase with $45 million. With that I am going to pay off your mortgage, put your kids through college and allow you to retire early.
You can believe that, or you can't. Which one takes faith?
As for myself, the sign does not bother me..As a believer, I am confident enough in my faith that a sign posted by anyone, anyplace that is anti God is not going to hurt, embarrass, anger or make me give up my belief..
If we believers/Christians are allowed to proclaim our faith in public, on public property I have no arguement against the Atheists or other religion doing the same..
Ain't this country the greatest
Last edited by Miss Blue; 12-26-2009 at 08:15 PM..
Reason: sp
Only because you want it to be so does not make it so. You probably have a reading comprehension skills problem.
Atheism requires faith because of logic 101 - negatives cannot be proved.
The atheist is placing faith in that which cannot be proved nor even reasonably or logically concluded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58
WHY?
I asked why it is more reasonable for one to believe that God does not exist and you respond with - WHY?
I think you're the one with a "reading comprehension" problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58
No we do not, it is your perverted POV that says that. But when one must dismiss logic, rational thought and empirical evidence in exchange for blind faith, then one has to question the theist reason and rationality.
Christian faith is reasoned and logical. Atheism is neither logical nor is it reasonable and therefore, requires blind faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58
Maybe you should refrain from ad-hominums when confronted with facts that you cannot refute, but this of course is the theist tactic when cornered by logic, rational thought.
You haven't presented any facts that need refuting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58
Here is a challenge, prove your god exists using the scientific method
The proof for God's existence is no further away than the end of your nose. We exist.
Here is my challenge to you: Explain how anything can come to exist out of nothing or, using the scientific method, demonstrate that matter is eternal and that statistical odds favor an eventual time + chance + matter evolution to human existence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58
Empirical proof is what atheists demand but sadly none is forthcoming.
LOL! Where is your empirical proof for the time + chance + matter hypothesis and God's supposed non-existence?
You "demand" empirical proof - now that's a laugh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58
BTW I was a fundie theist for over 30 years so you are going to have to do better than this lame response.
The old "been there, done that, got the T-shirt" routine.
Does your atheistic (yes YOU are an atheist) stance in regards to Enlil, Anubis, Thor, Odin, Zeus and the thousands of other Gods humanity has ever created require faith or is it just the application of rational thought and reason? Your god is not the "default" god and it is no less irrational to believe in Bible god than the gods you "know" do not exist.
Lead on maestro!
If in your opinion it's more reasonable to believe in Enlil, Anubis, Thor, Odin, Zeus and the thousands of other Gods humanity has ever created, make the case.
Atheism requires faith because of logic 101 - negatives cannot be proved.
There are several models of argument where negatives are proven. So why pick the one that makes it impossible?
In the legal system, negatives are proven all the time. People can be proven not to have given consent, or a person hasn't paid taxes, or that a person is not the father of a child.
In the medical system, people are proven not to have cancer, not to be pregnant, and not to have inheritable genetic defects.
Most important, in normal everyday life, negatives can be proven. Surely you couldn't have lived a normal life without proving to yourself that things aren't true.
By the way, "proof" only means that there is enough evidence to convince. There's nothing necessarily metaphysical about it.
So unless you employ a really strict definition of "proof", one can prove that there is no God, by a preponderance of the evidence.
Aren't you the same guy who could never answer the question of whether it was morally wrong to punish a child for the sins of his father?
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill
Be that as it may, understand that I used to be a Christian until logic compelled me to admit that Christianity was a bunch of nonsense.
I'm a strong atheist, in the sense that I go further than just believing that there is not enough evidence to support the belief in a God. I believe the preponderance of the evidence suggest there is no God.
Let's keep it simple. I would just be looking for you to give reasoned and rational alternatives to the classical arguments for God's existence, an explanation for the life of Christ, the existence of the Christian church and the existence of the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill
I'll be happy to debate whether or not there is more evidence for the non-existence of God than for the existence of a God, so long as:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill
(1) we predetermine a common definition for the word "God"
I believe in the Judeo-Christian God and all of the attributes ascribed in the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill
(2) we don't have to go through the same tired old cliches that have been put to rest a million times on this board alone, (i.e. don't start off with a watchman analogy.)
I don't have any need for "tired old cliches" either. As stated, I will be interested to see the presentation of your alternatives to the classical arguments. If the non-God world view is so reasoned and rational, it should be pretty easy for you to make the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill
, and (3) start a new thread.
Feel free to start a new thread. Just let me know the title and forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill
I don't have all day today to post, so it may take a few days.
In my hand I have a suitcase with $45 million. With that I am going to pay off your mortgage, put your kids through college and allow you to retire early.
You can believe that, or you can't. Which one takes faith?
Being that you have no idea of who I am or where I am, whether or not I have kids and/or a mortgage or am 'un'-retired or looking to retire early, it's quite obvious what the reasonable and rational conclusion would be.
Let's keep it simple. I would just be looking for you to give reasoned and rational alternatives to the classical arguments for God's existence, an explanation for the life of Christ, the existence of the Christian church and the existence of the Bible.
I believe in the Judeo-Christian God and all of the attributes ascribed in the Bible.
I don't have any need for "tired old cliches" either. As stated, I will be interested to see the presentation of your alternatives to the classical arguments. If the non-God world view is so reasoned and rational, it should be pretty easy for you to make the case.
Feel free to start a new thread. Just let me know the title and forum.
Ditto. We can respond as time permits.
Fair enough, I have some things to tend to, I'll start a new thread in a few hours. I look forward to it.
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