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You know, I don't believe Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine, but you most of you people posting on this site are just flat out being rude. Honestly, if you think ridiculing people for their beliefs is okay, you've got a bigger problem than they do. If you think exaggerating and sensationalizing is justified, you are no better than the people you're criticizing. I am disgusted at the lack of civility on this thread.
And I am disgusted by the lack of civility JWs often have even for their own families...Ever hear of shunning? I have no respect for their doctrine, because I have seen a good friends family destroyed by this practice. The JWs turned her own kids against her.
Your church is not a whole lot better...Do you remember this question from the temple recommend interviews?
"Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?" If so, how did you answer?
The nicest person I have ever met in my life is a JW. Everyone who knows this person says that. He is also the calmest. He doesn't act weird, and I don't think he goes door to door either.
not to put you on the spot but were you raised a jw? curious cause you seem to know them.
No, but I mingle a lot with the JW's because all the sign language interpreters in my area are JW and many of my deafblind friends are JW too. (The JW's put a lot of effort into targeting the deaf and the blind. They have congregations and assemblies in various sign languages and most of their books and pamphlets are available in braille and audio.) I also went to their meetings and studied their doctrine for awhile so I could understood more what they're about. I can actually relate to parts of their doctrine and don't really think anything they preach or practice is any more outlandish than mainstream Christianity.
Last edited by nimchimpsky; 10-25-2010 at 09:11 AM..
And I am disgusted by the lack of civility JWs often have even for their own families...Ever hear of shunning? I have no respect for their doctrine, because I have seen a good friends family destroyed by this practice. The JWs turned her own kids against her.
Your church is not a whole lot better...Do you remember this question from the temple recommend interviews?
"Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?" If so, how did you answer?
I can totally understand why you're opposed to shunning and disfellowshipping, but I thought it's worth mentioning that many of the JW's I know don't strictly observe the rules of disfellowshipping because even they realize how unreasonable it can be at times. According to their doctrine, my JW friends and interpreters shouldn't associate with me at all but they do because we get along and neither of us is forcing our beliefs on the other. Most JW's I know will associate with non-JW's as long as said non-JW isn't killing people or stealing huge sums of money.
I know it seems like JW's are just brainwashed into believing the Watchtower and that's it, but one point that was always emphasized in the Kingdom Hall meetings and Bible studies was that there are a lot of gray areas in life and Jehovah gave us a brain and a moral compass so that we could think for ourselves and make our own choices based on what we believe is best, and not just blindly follow a set of rules and regulations. Not shunning every person who doesn't support Jehovah's Kingdom is a prime example of that.
Last edited by nimchimpsky; 10-25-2010 at 09:25 AM..
Your church is not a whole lot better...Do you remember this question from the temple recommend interviews?
"Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?" If so, how did you answer?
I'm really not sure what you're getting at, but if you suppose that the point of this question is to determine whether the person being interviewed is associating with non-Mormons (specifically with friends or family members who have left the Church), you couldn't possibly be further off-base. The point of the question is to determine whether the person is involved with (1) one of the splinter groups such as Warren Jeff's group, the FLDS, or with (2) an anti-Mormon group which is attempting to gain access to the temple by disreputable means. I'm not involved with either, so I always answer, "No."
At any rate, this thread isn't about why you hate Mormons as much as you hate JWs. I was merely expressing disappointment in anyone who has to resort to attacks on people they disagree with. There are more mature ways of debating than I've seen on this thread.
I was a JW for around 40 years, an elder for some of those, and I have to say that I had lots of very good friends while I was in it.
My problem with it is that it has changed many of its beliefs over the years and in fact if its modern day founder, Charles Russell, came back today, he would find that nearly all his beliefs are no longer shared by the JWs. These belief changes have led to much unnecessary suffering and even death. They believed that organ transplants and vaccinations were wrong, they have changed their stance on blood and neutrality and several times have predicted dates for the end of the system of things and have urged people not to get higher education or a career. People who smoke and people who molest young children are viewed as being equally bad and the congregation is instructed to shun (unrepentant) ones without even knowing their crime.
Back in the 1960's when I was a child they printed in their magazines that in a few short years, even months, the world as we know it would come to an end and we would not have time to pursue a career or grow old in this system. That was a lie and having bought into the faith for so long... I did not have a career...I do not have a pension.... and I am in my 50's.
I am not bitter as I had good family and friends, but I am saddened that I let a bunch of old men tell me what to do with my life. I am a happy agnostic now and am at more peace with myself than ever before in my life, now that I am not controlled by what I believe to be a cult.
The JW's I see at least several times a week would never put smoking and child molestation on the same level. Maybe that is something that varies from congregation to congregation, because I just cannot see them equating the two.
I also don't buy the whole JW's are bad because they keep abuse a secret. That happens in other religious communities and secular communities as well. That's not to say it's okay or excusable, but just that it's definitely not "a JW thing."
On the other hand, many of the JW's I know have been JW since before many of the false prophecies, so I wonder how that didn't cause them to realize maybe Bethel isn't a direction connection to Jehovah. I really don't understand how people can overlook that one, and that is what definitely told me I will never ever become a JW.
Ringwielder, was there an event or a moment that really caused you to realize the WT was not the Truth? I'm just trying to understand how someone can be fully enthralled in a doctrine for 40 years and then come out of it. 40 years is an awful long-time to hold any belief system, and I always thought that after that long people are pretty much set in their beliefs. So I'd be interested to hear more of your story.
Hi Nimchimpsky, thanks for your question. The following is a brief overview of what happened to me and what I wrote back in 2007 when I first posted here. There are other things involved, such as suppressing questions that I had over the years because the Society tell you that Jehovah will answer in his own time and not to 'run ahead' of the Society with independent thoughts. I was amazed at how many of those questions surfaced when I finally broke free of the control of the Watchtower Society, and what important questions they were.
It is very difficult to describe what it is like being in a high control group to someone who has not experienced it, but it is like being in a prison without walls.... you are kept there by your own fears, which have been carefully inculcated into you... fear of losing out on everlasting life, fear of not doing enough, so you have to keep very busy all the time. It is always being reinforced (subtly)that you are not doing enough and are not good enough for God, which keeps you on a mentally and physically exhausting treadmill, which was partly the cause of my breakdown...see below.
I am more than happy to answer questions if you have any.
'Hi. I was a JW for nearly 40 years, an elder for some of those. About 6/7 years ago I had a breakdown. I stepped down as an elder. I hoped and prayed that Jehovah would be there for me, hearing my 'groanings unuttered' and give me strength to pull through. I got nothing, only advice from elders/brothers to pary more, study, attend all the meetings and go out in the ministry. I COULD not do those things. I felt abandoned and worthless. I was going to die at Armageddon.
People started to treat me differently. I had the sympathy vote at first from many lovely brothers and sisters who knew me, but gradually, the sympathy wore off. There must be something wrong with me....because God's advice (through the WT) was infallible. Eventually, through a very kind and helpful ex JW, who had been an elder himself, I started to research my faith.
I was so hurt and horrified when I found out that they had 'massaged' their history, in the Proclaimers Book and have been dishonest when quoting secular sources. They had been affiliated with the United Nations for 10 years. They have paid out millions of dollars in out of court settlements to victims of child abuse in the USA. They arbitrarily change major doctrines, like the 'generation' prophecy and blame it on the brothers and sisters. The Governing Body are arrogant and NEVER apologize for their mistakes.
In short, I feel like I have been betrayed by my mentors, my best friends. I had put my trust in these men on the Governing Body and they had taught me false doctrines.
One comment was made about the 'deep' things of God. The Watchtower magazine is like a fourth grade textbook. You have to answer what the paragraph says. It is repeated over and over and over, so that the message is reinforced into the mind of the listener, eg..how 'evil' 'APOSTATES' are. In fact that word has come to symbolize the very epitome of evil, far worse than child molesters, fornicators etc. You would almost think they were afraid of the apostates. As far as the other churches only having the 'milk' of the word, that is blatant propaganda from the WT Society. I have listened to many preachers, experts, on TV and radio, dissecting the Scriptures in much the same way as the organization does. They have a LOT of biblical knowledge.
I have family who are still JWs. For the sake of my integrity I had to leave. It was painful, difficult, and still is, because although I am not disfellowshipped, there are many friends I used to have who treat me as if I am. I am not bitter and twisted, despite the way I have been treated and although I have moved on with my life I am constantly rubbing shoulders with the Organization, through my family. I have also met many who are still hurting from their treatment by the WT Society and if I can help by letting them know they are not alone, then I will.'
What a courageous thing to be able to come out of years and years of indoctrination and have to leave your entire community and support network to be true to yourself. I really can't imagine what that's like. I've had to leave everyone and everything I knew, but at least I had another support network waiting for me. I've gone to the meetings and know what they preach, but I never spent a second buying into Armageddon or any of the other very real fears you mentioned.
I'm sorry you have to rub shoulders so much with the Organization. It might be worth moving or at least getting involved in other circles so you don't have to constantly come into contact with JW's and re-experience being shunned over and over again. What an awful feeling.
You're so right. The WT really is an exercise in repeating and regurgitating what you were just told. Lol, come to think of it, I used to answer questions at the meetings without ever having studied it, in a language that isn't my native language (ASL), when I wasn't even completely fluent in it, just by repeating the motions. Lol. And then I'd get praise afterwards for replying so well and I'd get complimented on how much and how fast I was learning the Bible. Half the time I didn't even know what I was saying.
My question is, what led to the breakdown? Was it praying and praying to Jehovah and getting nothing? And having those questions unanswered, to the point that one day they just broke through the surface and you had to have them answered?
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