U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 01-17-2010, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,621 posts, read 6,702,779 times
Reputation: 3625
Default Why Christians Despise "Science"

I've heard, this past few days, that God is the greatest scientist, and that He invented science. Yet I've also heard all the tried and true commentaries on the evils of science, and of scientists and their assumptive results, their blindered approach, and how they systematically ignore the truth.

That would, of course, be The Truth, as determined by the scientifically illiterate biblical authors, right? That "Truth"?

What gives, guys and girls?

First: SCIENCE is a simple idea. A lot of curious folks were asking questions in a haphazard fashion. No control groups, no reliable means to measure their results, and no good way to disseminate the results even if they were noteworthy.

So, Second, a process, The Scientific Method, was developed over time, evolved if you will, to deal with all these issues that plagued early science. The kind of loosey-goosey science that such greats as Darwin, sir Isaac Newton and others labored under, initially.

They felt beholden to their Church, for instance, to explain most or all of their findings in terms of a Godly cause. This is nowadays called a study contaminant.

It's like: "Let's find a cure for pancreatic cancer, but no matter what, it has to involve apple juice in the cure!" Nonsense on it's face, right? Or: "It's all great what we find, but it's also all God's work." Any difference? Nope.

And so, the Scientific Method is described in every intro science book:

1. Propose what you intend to investigate, listing the related work of others. an hypothesis, if you will. Include a "null hypothesis" if you are intellectually honest (a sort of alternate ending that may completely denounce what you are looking for.)

2. Describe the Methods you will employ to complete your study. In details so others can replicate the work.

3. Document your exact findings, the initial Results, down to the most minute related detail.

4. Discuss your results, as they appear, and as they relate to others' work in this area.

5. Come to some Conclusions, along with any limitations, about your work. This is also where you might point out how to overcome those limitations in future work.

6. List all your References, a bibliography of the work of others in this area of interest.

So. A blasphemous process, full of inherent errors and fraud? I don't think so. Anyone can check on the work, and many have. It's exactly how science, as an institution, has uncovered all the frauds: Piltdown Man, for instance, that Christians throw in our faces about once a month as somehow showing the fallability of "science".

You meant to say "successful self-policing" didn't you? I thought so! Thanks!

Then, to add further unsupported insults, they accuse it of being "a religion". All out of meanness or desperation, hardly Christian attributes, eh?

The Real Truth is that this system represents a true and tangible threat to organized mis-information. It is the means, invented by man, not God, to accurately answer simple questions asked of Mother Nature, one at a time. The results are reliable, though always subject to review or future improvements. This includes the application of newer, more accurate techniques, and scientists are completely open to such scrutiny. A change in an answer or conclusion does not denounce the system; in fact, it shows that the system works as planned. It improves it's reliability and trustworthiness, rather than reducing it.

Not so the bible, nor it's believers' ideas. They are stuck in ancient time and knowledge, despite modern findings to the contrary.

Last edited by rifleman; 01-17-2010 at 09:45 AM..

 
Old 01-17-2010, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,039 posts, read 14,836,373 times
Reputation: 19369
Fear. Imagine being confronted with reality rather than wishful thinking. Everything your entire life has revolved around turned on its head by looking at science and facts in a cold logical manner ? It is akin to saying your life so far has been more or less based on a lie.

I fully understand why people shelter themselves from it. Way, way too threatening psychologically.

Many humans prefer their "truth" to be manufactured and socially ordered by organised religion as it means not having to think too hard but following precepts and dogma as you are being spoon fed them.

Being an Atheist is a lot harder IMO. The path more travelled is so much safer. Also there is "safety in numbers" and a certain sense of socio-cultural belonging by following what others follow.


Human nature basically.
 
Old 01-17-2010, 10:10 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,218,871 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
I've heard, this past few days, that God is the greatest scientist, and that He invented science. Yet I've also heard all the tried and true commentaries on the evils of science, and of scientists and their assumptive results, their blindered approach, and how they systematically ignore the truth.

That would, of course, be The Truth, as determined by the scientifically illiterate biblical authors, right? That "Truth"?

What gives, guys and girls?

First: SCIENCE is a simple idea. A lot of curious folks were asking questions in a haphazard fashion. No control groups, no reliable means to measure their results, and no good way to disseminate the results even if they were noteworthy.

So, Second, a process, The Scientific Method, was developed over time, evolved if you will, to deal with all these issues that plagued early science. The kind of loosey-goosey science that such greats as Darwin, sir Isaac Newton and others labored under, initially.

They felt beholden to their Church, for instance, to explain most or all of their findings in terms of a Godly cause. This is nowadays called a study contaminant.

It's like: "Let's find a cure for pancreatic cancer, but no matter what, it has to involve apple juice in the cure!" Nonsense on it's face, right? Or: "It's all great what we find, but it's also all God's work." Any difference? Nope.

And so, the Scientific Method is described in every intro science book:

1. Propose what you intend to investigate, listing the related work of others. an hypothesis, if you will. Include a "null hypothesis" if you are intellectually honest (a sort of alternate ending that may completely denounce what you are looking for.)

2. Describe the Methods you will employ to complete your study. In details so others can replicate the work.

3. Document your exact findings, the initial Results, down to the most minute related detail.

4. Discuss your results, as they appear, and as they relate to others' work in this area.

5. Come to some Conclusions, along with any limitations, about your work. This is also where you might point out how to overcome those limitations in future work.

6. List all your References, a bibliography of the work of others in this area of interest.

So. A blasphemous process, full of inherent errors and fraud? I don't think so. Anyone can check on the work, and many have. It's exactly how science, as an institution, has uncovered all the frauds: Piltdown Man, for instance, that Christians throw in our faces about once a month as somehow showing the fallability of "science".

You meant to say "successful self-policing" didn't you? I thought so! Thanks!

Then, to add further unsupported insults, they accuse it of being "a religion". All out of meanness or desperation, hardly Christian attributes, eh?

The Real Truth is that this system represents a true and tangible threat to organized mis-information. It is the means, invented by man, not God, to accurately answer simple questions asked of Mother Nature, one at a time. The results are reliable, though always subject to review or future improvements. This includes the application of newer, more accurate techniques, and scientists are completely open to such scrutiny. A change in an answer or conclusion does not denounce the system; in fact, it shows that the system works as planned. It improves it's reliability and trustworthiness, rather than reducing it.

Not so the bible, nor it's believers' ideas. They are stuck in ancient time and knowledge, despite modern findings to the contrary.
I am a Christian and I don't "despise science."

Did you mean to ask "Why do some Christians despise science?"

That would be a much more credible question.
 
Old 01-17-2010, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic, US
1,930 posts, read 1,371,515 times
Reputation: 1240
The right hemisphere of my brain doesn't quite know what to make of the left hemisphere, and my left hemisphere thinks the right hemisphere is "nuts."
 
Old 01-17-2010, 11:02 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 10,323,715 times
Reputation: 1538
The thing about science is that at the beginning science wasn't as logical as it is now and that the modern scientific method only started with the Muslim philosophers of Baghdad and Al-Andalus.
I guess people seem to forget that science and religion branched from the same root which is philosophy.
 
Old 01-17-2010, 11:12 AM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,116,879 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
The thing about science is that at the beginning science wasn't as logical as it is now and that the modern scientific method only started with the Muslim philosophers of Baghdad and Al-Andalus.
I guess people seem to forget that science and religion branched from the same root which is philosophy.
Like it's sibling religion, Islam choked science off at the root when Islam gained power.

If one wants to find the roots of modern science, then one has to travel farther back, to pre-Christian Greece.

Hippocrates, Aristotle, Euclid, Aristarchus, Archimedes of Syracus...

The list of notables is quite long.

So, what did these "scientists" of Baghdad and Al-Andalus invent?
 
Old 01-17-2010, 11:28 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 10,323,715 times
Reputation: 1538
The Ancient Greeks didn't believe in impericism.
And the idea of Aristotle of why things fall down is pretty weird (simply because he didn't know about gravity).
Quote:
Initially, the Ancient Greek philosophers did not believe in empiricism, and saw measurements, such as geometry, as the domain craftsmen and artisans. Philosophers, such as Plato, believed that all knowledge could be obtained through pure reasoning, and that there was no need to actually go out and measure anything.

Aristotle’s methods can be summed up as follows.
  1. Study what others have written about the subject.
  2. Look for the general consensus about the subject
  3. Perform a systematic study of everything even partially related to the topic.
The first, and possibly greatest Islamic scholar, was Ibn al-Haytham, best known for his wonderful work on light and vision, called ‘The Book of Optics.’ He developed a scientific method very similar to our own:
  1. State an explicit problem, based upon observation and experimentation.
  2. Test or criticize a hypothesis through experimentation.
  3. Interpret the data and come to a conclusion, ideally using mathematics.
  4. Publish the findings
Ibn al-Haytham, brilliantly, understood that controlled and systematic experimentation and measurement were essential to discovering


Read more: http://www.experiment-resources.com/history-of-the-scientific-method.html#ixzz0ctXPZDv0
 
Old 01-17-2010, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,616 posts, read 17,784,879 times
Reputation: 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezlie View Post
The right hemisphere of my brain doesn't quite know what to make of the left hemisphere, and my left hemisphere thinks the right hemisphere is "nuts."
You too huh?
 
Old 01-17-2010, 11:52 AM
 
4,529 posts, read 3,116,879 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
The Ancient Greeks didn't believe in impericism.
And the idea of Aristotle of why things fall down is pretty weird (simply because he didn't know about gravity).
Gotta love the cherry-picking. From your own link to what admits is hardly a professional site...

"Unsurprisingly, and fittingly, our history of the scientific method will start here, although we must point out that knowledge knows no boundaries. Whilst Babylonian, Indian and Egyptian astronomers, physicians and mathematicians developed some empirical ideas, the Greeks were the first to develop what we recognize as the scientific method."

Islam wasn't even invented until much of the sciences of the Old World had been developed, including Optics.
 
Old 01-17-2010, 11:57 AM
 
1,168 posts, read 584,690 times
Reputation: 79
Science is in my understanding ...observation of what is,.... in regards to human science,..it is scewed to one side,Limited to certain knowns, and observed truths of what is visible to them, and in some regards constant or consistant in its actions/state/reality,.. because the other side is not seen, and everything is not known to humankind on this world...and the observer has little to no understanding as to what it is he or she is observing,....when looking at this world, or the universe....they make theories...according to they methods of observating that is not always perfect, because of the unknown variables that also effect the state or subject.

God knows all states, principles, and all things...and he/she knows how to minipulate them, for he/she created them....and he/she knows there are rouge variables...but once the nature of the variables are known and mapped out...all things become known!

That is the reason why I say...God is the greatest scientist...because God has all the truths about all things...

Humans on this world, are just starting to see some of the variables....as the patterns of behavior over long periods of time show that there is a woe and wrath for certain behavior....
Once they begin to see and prove the cause and effect...and solve for it...they should change the behavior that causes the woe and wrath...But in humankinds case, the behavior is not reduced, it is incurraged, and promoted..so more people get sick, and more wrath comes down, so they can make a profit off the ordeal they know they are causing!

Human bent science is now genetically modifying Plants/food/seeds....and it is not for the betterment of the people, nor the planet, or the animals. or insects....it is to make a product that only grows once from that altered seed...any seeds taken from the fruit of such a plant grown from this genetic seed...is useless and unfruitful...thus more seed needs to be bought...
This is ruining the EDEN principle God asked us to do...with what God Gave us.....out of order
Humans with their bent science, have devised a ways to be selfish onto the other living things (Our Neighbours), and do it for profits and gains...
They have also devised a way to stop people from sowing seeds and making Edens with a bent prohibition law, and brain washing people into thinking that a perticular plant is Bad or Evil...when it is the law itself that creates the lawlessness of those who want to plant and grow, and sow, and be at peace with themselves in that garden estate.....This kind of person is none productive profit wise...and does not produce enough taxable income for the real Evil doers who sit on our heads changing what God said not to...profaning his creation...to instill a genetically unfruitful, but very profitable estate so we have to buy all the time, those seeds...

Science is working against us here....as God has asked that we tend and keep the Garden with all the things Given...restore..put back...and do it sinlessly....to make it abundantlt giving

This world is becoming bent...on war, and dead blood...polluting and intoxicating everytihng!

And they say they have no idea why the whales are beaching...
Maybe a message from Jonah?...perhaps?...and not just one whale, many whales..and other things washing up on the shores...unknown things...or why the cows are going mad...or the chickens are getting sick...or the fish are tainted with heavey metals...

Now I wonder just what it is science doesn't understand about God...to actually go in the opposite direction, and even to denie the existance of a greator being, that knows more than they do about LIFE and Death....to which they haven't even been able to prove whether we are in Life or Death...alive or dead...positive or negitive...To God.

Now from what I gain from reading My Bible...we are not doing what God has asked of us, if we do not take care of the Garden, no matter where we are put...no matter what part of the planet...the prime directive has been established as Tending and Keeping the Garden sinlessly!
The laws of the land are not Nations own laws...But Gods laws over the lands, and the laws of the land out of the Bible.
Sharing the land..and the seeds...spreading the Eden concept..and in the sharing the knowledge about being forgiven, and how to be sinless so the land prospers abundantly!..and we eventually gain that forgiveness, and re enter Life with God and Jesus...and all the other ones who spoke this truth of God and the Garden freely given and freely sown...

Now something is true to that...and science will not acknowledge it...and yet we have many patterns That show this to be true, over a very long time line!

God is Truth...and Jesus is his son...and he said God's word is trustworthy and true!
Thus there are no mistakes with God.

If we are livng in death...and God wants us to come out of it...and the way in taking in (disobediance) causing Death...is the way out backwards restoring (Sinlessly)...would be a model that should work!

and we only have to test it and see what happens when we try...the answer is at hand...what do we have to loose?

remember the commandments...and stay away from doing evil.....oh and No money required...no killing...no coveting...no thieving...etc..

Then just put it back and say sorry to God for what ever sins we have been decieved into under that Idol that is destroying this planet...for false profits and bent gains...in nothing important, if it destroys the planet we live on...and the neighbour that live with us....what does that observation look like?...as a scientist of some merit?

Last edited by Sir Les; 01-17-2010 at 12:09 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top