Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well, yes, I think they ought to be held to the same standards as anyone else, but it is not illegal to publish unscientifically -demonstrated claims.
I do note and rather regret that little effort is put into following up these claims. Campbell34 is not entirely unjustified in remarking that claims of undersea cities is not followed up by a properly conducted research project to see whether there is anything in it. Or at least I had not seen anything further on last Google.
As a bit of an archaeologist in the past, I have come across many claims of a Roman Villa or lost Cathedral or saxon cemetary together with bits of out of context evidence - a saxon penny, a bit of tesserae or a chunk of salt-glaze ware. And on investigation, nothing has been found or something quite different.
So when claims are made of some ancient artefact being found and the only evidence is a bit of fossil wood or something that might be an African tribal drum and these are put forward by enthusiasts as the Ark (either Noah's or Joshua's) we have got to be cautious.
My comment that the enthusiasts have millions to spend still stands. However, it's probably better that research is left to uncomitted scientists rather than those with a burning desire to prove the Bible true.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 01-24-2010 at 05:06 AM..
First your source is a bit shady, never heard of it, and it doesn't look very reputable. Now assuming there is any truth at all to this story. She could be just crazy. Also if a priest or nun or such tells you, you are possessed, some people will just believe it because they are suggestible. As far as the levitation, there are a number of ways to fake a levitation, and secondly no video or photography evidence is provided, so how could the account in any way be corroborated. Also do you even believe what you are posting? I don't think most Christians believe in levitation as a real phenomena or do they?
I'll opt for crazy!
I'm seventy five years old and I've never seen or heard anything which could not be proven with the natural laws, axioms, postulates, formulas and calculations we call mathmatics plus circumstances. 'Course I don't believe in ghosts...holy or otherwise.
If they would like to see some good magic there's a lot of it in Las Vegas.
I'm just curious why do "possessed" people act like someone who has had a break with reality/mental breakdown? Logically someone who is possessed would have two(or more) minds/personalities, so wouldn't multiple personality disorder or going from one very distinct personality each with its own memories be a sign of a genuine possession. I also don't get why being possessed should give you the ability to levitate. It just doesn't follow. Possessed people shouldn't logically appear as crazy as they do! There should be signs that two individuals are trying to control the same body, but it seems like it is one person who from stress or whatnot is just unable to deal with reality. You also have the idea of channeling, like where one person is able serve as a medium, a voice for a spirit, yet that is not even mentioned! Why? Why is it usually a Catholic priest that is involved with the exorcism? It is like the same story no matter who is involved. Having been a Christian in the past, I know how easy it itself to believe what others tell you from peer pressure and such especially when you have more than one person telling you the same thing. I know some of you want possessions to be true because you believe it would in some way validate your belief system, but sometimes it takes emotional honesty, emotional courage even to consider that what you believe might not be as correct as you would like it to be. And that ABC vid seemed more like a propaganda piece to get ratings(and thus ad revenue) than any kind of serious investigation. I've read varying account from people of different religions claiming to levitate and these accounts go back at least a few hundred years. I've even read accounts of Tibetan monks using sound to levitate heavy rocks in order to move them. I find it all inconclusive at best. Can anything new be said in regards to this topic, some kind of deeper understanding as to why a possession or a levitation would occur, or is it just the same rehashed ideas that have been repeated for hundreds of years? Would it not be the responsibility of the religious community who believe in such ideas to go about proving them and thus earning their paycheck? Scientists are expected to add to the sum total of knowledge about the universe, shouldn't these religious experts, these theologians be held to the same standards?
People of faith are usually way to busy with the problem at hand. When I had my encounter back in 1973, I was not thinking about trying to prove anything. I was way to worried about how to get rid of these things. When your 23 years old, and your bed is shaking, and your hearing jungle drums, and strange chantings around you. Well, somehow scientific conformation is really not that big on your list. I still have the tapes from the deliverance I attended in order to get rid of them. Not everyone who is possessed has the ability to levitate. That only occurs in the most extreme cases. Demons have abilities to do things that are beyond our natural understanding, and that is why levitation sometimes occurs. I do believe multiple personality disorder can be a sign of possession. There are many ways that demonic manifestations can be experienced by an individual.
People of faith are usually way to busy with the problem at hand. When I had my encounter back in 1973, I was not thinking about trying to prove anything. I was way to worried about how to get rid of these things. When your 23 years old, and your bed is shaking, and your hearing jungle drums, and strange chantings around you. Well, somehow scientific conformation is really not that big on your list. I still have the tapes from the deliverance I attended in order to get rid of them. Not everyone who is possessed has the ability to levitate. That only occurs in the most extreme cases. Demons have abilities to do things that are beyond our natural understanding, and that is why levitation sometimes occurs. I do believe multiple personality disorder can be a sign of possession. There are many ways that demonic manifestations can be experienced by an individual.
There is a very good book called "Angels (and Demons) - What do we really know about them" by Dr. Peter Kreeft. He is a professor at Boston College and a practicing Roman Catholic.
He has several free audio lectures on his website, including one on Angels:
Hypothesis: 1 = "A"; null Hypothesis: 1 ≠ A, but instead = "B".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34
When your 23 years old, and your bed is shaking, and your hearing jungle drums, and strange chantings around you. Well, somehow scientific conformation is really not that big on your list.
One: try "earthquakes", Tom.
Two: it's true what JustNobody said; why is it always the same tired stuff, with a good bit of jabbering and unintelligible blather thrown in? Could it be that's the expected story line nowadays? I'd bet on it.
Why, for instance, can't a person whose soul has been "invaded" just acquire some less "spectacular" facility? Answer: it wouldn't "sell" to the devout believers, that's why.
Here it is then: just call up a local university Science Dept for the next "Possession demo". Have them bring along some reasonable methods to measure and document the event. Then, if it still happens, we can examine the "PROOF" provided.
As I've said so many times now, C34's ideas of "proof" simply aren't.
"I really hope/believe this happened!" just doesn't cut it, Tom! Scientists always examine all the possibilities, up AND down, "older" as well as "younger" fossils. It's even been formally labeled as "The Null Hypothesis":
(It's also the one concept Christians frantically and categorically deny or ignore with regularity, but that regularly trips up their spectacularly weak arguments. I'd suggest you all become a bit more aware of it's place in ANY logical debate.)
Two: it's true what JustNobody said; why is it always the same tired stuff, with a good bit of jabbering and unintelligible blather thrown in? Could it be that's the expected story line nowadays? I'd bet on it.
Why, for instance, can't a person whose soul has been "invaded" just acquire some less "spectacular" facility? Answer: it wouldn't "sell" to the devout believers, that's why.
Here it is then: just call up a local university Science Dept for the next "Possession demo". Have them bring along some reasonable methods to measure and document the event. Then, if it still happens, we can examine the "PROOF" provided.
As I've said so many times now, C34's ideas of "proof" simply aren't.
"I really hope/believe this happened!" just doesn't cut it, Tom! Scientists always examine all the possibilities, up AND down, "older" as well as "younger" fossils. It's even been formally labeled as "The Null Hypothesis":
(It's also the one concept Christians frantically and categorically deny or ignore with regularity, but that regularly trips up their spectacularly weak arguments. I'd suggest you all become a bit more aware of it's place in ANY logical debate.)
rifleman, I'm here to state what I have experienced, and to speak the truth. If you want more evidence, then you need to search for it yourself. Jesus said, if you seek Him with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your soul, you will surely find Him. The truth is out there, and there are thousand of people who's experiences are just like mine in many ways. You will never be able to view evil in a test tube. Yet, those who have gone the extra mile, have been forced to believe in conclusions, that agree with the Biblical account. In the link below, I believe we have another encounter with demonic spirits that is affecting a young woman. It starts about a minute or two into the broadcast.
rifleman, I'm here to state what I have experienced, and to speak the truth. If you want more evidence, then you need to search for it yourself. Jesus said, if you seek Him with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your soul, you will surely find Him. The truth is out there, and there are thousand of people who's experiences are just like mine in many ways. You will never be able to view evil in a test tube. Yet, those who have gone the extra mile, have been forced to believe in conclusions, that agree with the Biblical account. In the link below, I believe we have another encounter with demonic spirits that is affecting a young woman. It starts about a minute or two into the broadcast.
WARNING
I'm making a comment on my own post here, which is rare. However, after I learned more information about Bob Larson, there hangs some serious questions about his ministery. So I personally cannot be sure as to the accuracy of this posting. What occured on his broadcast may be true, and maybe not.
rifleman, I'm here to state what I have experienced, and to speak the truth. If you want more evidence, then you need to search for it yourself. Jesus said, if you seek Him with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your soul, you will surely find Him. The truth is out there, and there are thousand of people who's experiences are just like mine in many ways. You will never be able to view evil in a test tube. Yet, those who have gone the extra mile, have been forced to believe in conclusions, that agree with the Biblical account. In the link below, I believe we have another encounter with demonic spirits that is affecting a young woman. It starts about a minute or two into the broadcast.
Sometimes such things simply show the gullibility and ignorance of people. Here's a video that demonstrates the point.
It always comes down to a question of what is true, and what is false. And sometimes honest people may be viewed in a poor light based on things that appear questionable. When I tell of encounters I have had. I have no doubt that many shake there heads and begin to say. What is wrong with him? LOL And I do believe there are ministeries out there that fake the supernatural for cash. Yet I am also confident, that there are many others that don't have to fake anything at all.
It always comes down to a question of what is true, and what is false. And sometimes honest people may be viewed in a poor light based on things that appear questionable. When I tell of encounters I have had. I have no doubt that many shake there heads and begin to say. What is wrong with him? LOL And I do believe there are ministeries out there that fake the supernatural for cash. Yet I am also confident, that there are many others that don't have to fake anything at all.
You're right. It does indeed come down to a question of what's true and what's false. It's not a matter of questioning the honesty of people (the viewers). It has to do with some things that can be hard to discern by some people about which is real and which is fake. Don't you think it's possible to have an experience but misunderstand it due to incomplete or incorrect information, or a lack of knowledge, and as a result draw the wrong conclusion based on that?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hypothesis: 1 = "A"; null Hypothesis: 1 ≠ A, but instead = "B".
