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Well, the reason Christians see a link between the Biblical account, and NDEs, is often such experiences describe places the Bible speaks of. Both Heaven and Hell are sometimes viewed by those haveing a NDE.
That's just another factor that makes them seem unreliable from my point of view. I think that people are strongly influenced by their religious beliefs when they experience something traumatic. I don't find it surprising that a religious person might interpret their state of mind using religious imagery. In fact I think it's possible that the subconscious mind could play a role in this situation like it does when we're dreaming. The problem we have in analyzing a near death experience is that we can't verify what is really happening and all we have is the explanation from the person who experienced it.
It has been said by some, that a Near Death Experience is simply the mind reacting to the last sparks of life. Yet if that is true, why then are numerous people who have been blind since birth reporting that they experienced sight for the first time in their life during such an experience? They tell us, that they were able to see themselves being worked on by the doctors and nurses. They even report seeing objects outside of the buildings where they were at. How is that possible?
The story of Vicki Umipeg is well documented. And during her NDE, she was able to see light for the first time in her life. Vicki would tell you, she never saw anything in her mind while she was dreaming. And that was because that part of her brain never allow any such activity. Vicki speaks of her NDE in the link below.
Campbell you claim this incident is "well documented", but all I'm able to find is testimonials from biased sites. How about producing some of this documentation....All I see is her description of the event and nothing to verify it.
You betcha. That's what I figured, (that, in your mind, evidence has nothing to do with reality). And that's also what keeps me from letting you ever get away with that wildly errant declaration.
I'm still stuck, of course, in this little logical disconnect: if man does exist on two different planes (one being simply biochemical and mechanical, so to speak, and the other some ill-defined bu hoped-for spiritual existence only seen after death), how can a non-dead person experience it?
Remember now: Near-death is NOT Death. So if we're going to blithely accept the statements from the un-dead, I'm going to make a few profound pronouncements myself. Even though, the way I sometimes feel, I'm close to death! That should count, no?
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Also, as a logical question and "aside: if we all do agree that there's some additional but as-yet unexplained spiritual side to our existence, is it probable or possible that it will eventually be understood and measurable? That it will be the result of SOME sort of understandable physics or electrical or sub-atomic or dark matter particle interaction? Or whatever uncovered and non-mystical process?
Or does Christianity require that it will always remain tantalizingly just out of our intellectual grasp, will therefore always remain inexplicable and hence will provide, for eternity, an "answer" to every temporarily unanswerable question? A sort of auto-fall-back religious position?
Remembering that, once upon a time, lightning and thunder claps were Zeus, for sure and certain! (Now, some of us know better...)
Or, alternately, if we do discover not only a spiritual side, but also the measurable and predictable means of it's functionality, will that also spell the death-knell for a necessary God?
Hmm.....
The reality of God, is kind of like the experiment that few have any intrest in researching. Most will hypothesize about His existance, yet few will do the (necessary footwork,) which would enable one to draw a solid conclusion. It is human indifference that keeps God from their intellectual grasp. And that is because most refuse to do the necessary experimentation. And that is the main reason why so many of their questions remain unanswered. Many who have experienced NDEs will tell you, if anything, their experience gave them many more reasons to believe in God, and not the other way around. If someone really wanted to know if Jesus Christ was both real, and alive. Well, that person would have to ask God Himself. Of course, that would require you to sincerely take a few minutes out of your busy life, and ask Him. Hmm.....
Many who have experienced NDEs will tell you, if anything, their experience gave them many more reasons to believe in God, and not the other way around.
And what about those who don't have a NDE, or have one, but only about family, friends and a peaceful location?
Campbell you claim this incident is "well documented", but all I'm able to find is testimonials from biased sites. How about producing some of this documentation....All I see is her description of the event and nothing to verify it.
Her account is just one out of 30 persons who were interviewed by both Dr. Ken Ring, and Sharon Cooper. They did a book together on the study titled "Mindsight" and it came out in March of 2000. The link below is a customer review, and states. "All aspects of this book are well handled from the description of the study, the first person accounts, and the scientific isssues involved." I believe their book would supply many of the details you seek.
And what about those who don't have a NDE, or have one, but only about family, friends and a peaceful location?
I can't speak for each individual. I don't know where they are in their life, only God knows that. I do know, that those who actively oppose God, often have Hell like experiences during their NDE.
That's just another factor that makes them seem unreliable from my point of view. I think that people are strongly influenced by their religious beliefs when they experience something traumatic. I don't find it surprising that a religious person might interpret their state of mind using religious imagery. In fact I think it's possible that the subconscious mind could play a role in this situation like it does when we're dreaming. The problem we have in analyzing a near death experience is that we can't verify what is really happening and all we have is the explanation from the person who experienced it.
Well, often their experience defies human logic, because their experience allows them to see things that should not be physically possible. Also, children who have not been grounded in any religious training often speak of things that are without a doubt, very religious after their NDE. Consider the link below.
Dr. Melvin morse Web Site (http://www.melvinmorse.com/morse.htm - broken link)
Well, often their experience defies human logic, because their experience allows them to see things that should not be physically possible.
The problem I have with this link is that this guy is in the business of promoting the concept of near death experiences as being religious in nature. He's selling a book called Where God Lives so he's obviously trying to sell as many copies as possible. There was also an error on his website. They referred to his book as being "non-fiction".
Two more things I find interesting about those NDEs:
- What people experience depends on their religion. Chinese for instance never report seeing Jesus, Indians see their gods such as Rama or Ganesha. That makes me think that whatever there is, it is tied to the individual and not an objective reality for all.
- NDEs can be artificially induced with the use of chemicals, has been done a number of times in the lab.
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