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About the spiral Curve equation...etc ABSTRACT. The intriguing nearly face-on southern ringed spiral galaxy NGC 4622, the first galaxy definitively shown to have leading spiral structure, is revisited in this paper with new images from the Hubble Space Telescope's (HST) WFPC2, together with ground-based optical and near-IR imaging, and a Fabry-Perot Hα velocity field. The data provide new information on the disk/bulge/halo mix, rotation curve, star formation in the galaxy, and the sense of winding of its prominent spiral arms. Previously, we suggested that the weaker, inner single arm most likely has the leading sense, based on a numerical simulation. Now, taking advantage of HST resolution and using de Vaucouleurs' standard extinction and reddening technique to determine the near side of the galaxy's slightly tilted disk, we come to the more surprising conclusion that the two strong outer arms have the leading sense. We suggest that this highly unusual configuration may be the result of a past minor merger or mild tidal encounter. Possible evidence for a minor merger is found in a short, central dust lane, although this is purely circumstantial and an unrelated interaction with a different companion could also be relevant. The leading arms may be allowed to persist because NGC 4622 is dark halo dominated (i.e., not "maximum disk" in the inner regions) and displays a significantly rising rotation curve. The new HST observations also reveal a rich globular cluster system in the galaxy. The mean color of these clusters is (V-I)0 = 1.04, and the specific frequency is 3.4 ± 0.6. The luminosity function of these clusters confirms the membership of NGC 4622 in the Centaurus Cluster.
Now with that showing face...it is impossible to say what the true curve is going to be.
TO say one way or another more or less would be in truth a lie.
A lie is something that is not always true or is the opposite of truth...
And as this Galaxy is in constant flux with differing veriables...it is impossible to formulate the spiral curve in a truthful equation.
Now that is Science....with Truth.
Now from further study of the inner Spiraling Galaxy...there have been drawings on cave walls of Just such a spiral (inner)...way back in time...perhaps.
And the now dual personality after the visitation of Christ Jesus...as he has passed through this reality, and has Joined with the Father in heaven?....Perhaps?...a union of opposites?
Ah...and we have another odd formation that is again not like anything, we are taking notes of as Galaxies, nebula, black holes, suns, darkmatter...Yet is made up of all of the listed in a unique way.
Now what is revealing itself in those two points in time and space...seems to show a Shadow Man...surrounded by Light......
Jesus says he will come wiith all the Glory and power of God....even being with God.....and the war will be brought to a final end...because the truth will then be known by all..
Now as it is written in scriptural states....The first instruction out of Genesis, with the laws/commandments, precepts, and covenants upheld....No judgement is required.
But if we break those commandments, covenants, and precepts, and stop people from doing the first instruction...with bent laws of prohibituion...
Then Judgement is coming!
Now because we know there is sin and evil here on this Earth...we know the opposite is also.
And because we have both...we know Christ has not yet come the second time.
And God has not come...for it would be a paradise if he did.
Now saying let us prepare a Ark and save ourselves from the coming judgement, is not going to work.
Cause this time God is coming with Christ Jesus....and it is writen that it is going to be with fire that the Earth is going to be Judged this time around..
So taking from the Bible and making it your bent science solution ain't gona cut the cake.
What has to happen is Humans stop sinning...and start doing what God said to do...cause it is the right thing to do...
That is the only way...and to do it a certain way..sinlessly..that is the only way!
anything else is wrong.
Bending it to suit yourself is well lets say Nuts...But I can see the light of it, as Chaos is....NGC 4622...and the state of democracy and monetary systems which now rule the people...is showing hypocrisy in its wings...
Salvation is for those who do the will of the father...
And you have to believe, because it is the only way...LEFT... that has not been addressed or completed....other than Christ Jesus sinlessly.
Wow 2000 years after the fact....and people still have not done the first instruction out of Genesis, sinlessly?....even a child could do it, with no need of math, no need of science, no need of reward....why can't we?...= .$atan!
And those who do...are imprisoned, impailed, murdered, wared on, called and labeled criminals or terrorists, oppressed, impovished, and enslaved to a system of Bloodshed and oppressors...While polluting the verything God wanted taken care of....
Eh Did i sum it up right?...and who wants to be saved out of that clan?...should they be saved is a more appropriate question....I'D say.
But.. do you understand it, could you have written a rebuttal or equally detailed summation, or are you simply looking for cute phrases about space-time curves and stuff? I wonder. And I'm still missing your point as it relates to the OP. Which I absolutely do understand, being it's author and all.....
Anyhow, the quandary of my OP remains intact, unruffled and unaddressed so far by your contributions.
I mean, I could ditto post a sentence from this same abstract like so...
"Now, taking advantage of HST resolution and using de Vaucouleurs' standard extinction and reddening technique to determine the near side of the galaxy's slightly tilted disk, we come to the more surprising conclusion that the two strong outer arms have the leading sense."
...and then highlight a part of it as though that proved something substantial. (see red outline above). Still, it certainly sounds impressive, non?
(BTW, this abstract's authors are also giving full credence to Doppler redshift determinations of relative positions in order to conclude the likely positions of this galaxy's arms. Thanks for the confirmation!)
But still, your point being? In order to discuss what the authors of this study had in mind, you'd have to provide the entire paper (which costs $$$ BTW), or at the least be "up" on this terminology and the research efforts of the day in this esoteric area. What, for instance, defines "the leading sense" here? The forward edge of a galaxian arm mayhaps? The forward edge of it's molecular or gross physical interaction with collision subjects? It's "event horizon" in some space-time correction? What's going on? And since these ARE credible astronomers and physicists, I'd say their work only augments the credibility of their science, rather than demeaning it.
Absent some clarification, it's a bit hard to comprehend, at least for those of us with aging and less bright minds. And especially as to it's relationship to our intentionally going a-wandering in search of unknown but potential planets to survive on: no-one ever said we'll know beforehand exactly where we're going. That will be the big "Q"! All we can do is go to the closest potential home sites and scope 'em out!
Still, I'd suggest, confidently, we'll have to leave at some point, either in a hurry or with lots of planning and aforethought. I just want to be known as the one who started the logical and unbiased thought processes, right here on good old City-Data (you guy's'll get your cut, I promise!)
Having attended countless symposia, and presented at same, I'm used to explaining myself to the less-involved in my particular areas of scientific expertise. And you? I'm having trouble understanding your "expertise".
But if we break those commandments, covenants, and precepts, and stop people from doing the first instruction...with bent laws of prohibituion...
Then Judgement is coming!
It's what it always comes down to...'EITHER BELIEVE WHAT WE BELIEVE OR YOU WILL BE PUNISHED"
It's the Christian faith in a nutshell. Well...I'm not some ignorant, primitive, unsophisticated excuse for a man. I have better sense than to believe a loving caring god came along two millenium ago and left the only keys to the kingdom with a mob of folks who believed the earth was flat and the universe revolved around it.
Exactly, MG! My thoughts exactly. But if He does happen along, I'll given Him a piece of my mind about letting all those innocent people suffer along the way, for centuries, all in His name.
And then I'll drop-kick his sorry alien a$$ through the goalposts of reality.
Exactly, MG! My thoughts exactly. But if He does happen along, I'll given Him a piece of my mind about letting all those innocent people suffer along the way, for centuries, all in His name.
And then I'll drop-kick his sorry alien a$$ through the goalposts of reality.
Ah-men!
Drop Kick it over this way and I'll do a number on it! AMEN?
Melvin George...Lets put it like this,....Every modern house has electricity in the western modern world.
And with that Electricity comes some rules of conduct for its proper use.
If Hydro god says...do not remove the cover and put your tongue on the hot 220volt wire and the ground while the power is still on.
Some would!
The punishment is the resulting shocker....and possible heart arrest...
Hydro is correct in posting the warning...
Do we hate Hydro for the punishment?
So is God wrong in warning us about the coming events that are showing sign?
Travel too close to the edge, and you could be shoved off, or you could fall, and some will just jump...
But the warning should always be posted...
What kind of a God would God be, if he doesn't warn of the punishment, and why it is so...?
God did come in the form of the word...with Jesus, and he had the keys with him to the kingdom of God....and those Loving Mobsterd murdered him, and his followers fed to the lions,, and to this day they are reputed and hated, and mocked, and imprisoned, and wared on......
What a lovely bunch of people....and the mobsters are even here too?
Well Just pointing things out as they are in my perspective.....same faces / spirits, reborn in the flesh over time...and a true judgement is coming, when they are all here!
What kind of a God would God be, if he doesn't warn of the punishment, and why it is so...?
Oh he did a very good job with the warnings. 162 mentions of hell in the new testament...70 of them by Jesus himself. Here's a little summary of what those of us who believe that the bible is a dose of BS from primitive mankind has to look forward to:
"The Son of Man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
(Mat 13:41-42)
"So it shall be at the end of the world. The angels shall come out and separate the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Mat 13:49-50
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Away from me, you that are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels!" "These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life."
Mat 25:41 & 46
"And if your foot offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame than to have two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched where their conscience dies not, and the fire is not quenched."
(Mark 9:45-46)
"And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame."
(Luke 16:23-24)
"He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil."
(John 3:18-19)
" - in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, ...."
(2Th 1:8-9)
"And a third angel followed them, saying with a great voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."
(Rev 14:9-11)
"And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire."
(Rev 20:15)
"But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
(Rev 21:8)
Last edited by Melvin.George; 02-17-2010 at 09:11 AM..
Riffleman....About the Galaxy and the leading arm....it is not proven that the leading arm is the arm that will govern after all is said and done in time.
So it may seem to be leading, at the time of our observance....and what we observe is also being effected by Gravity...and that pollutes the true image...hence the focal lensing could and or would be in play...and from my experience with focal lenses...they turn things upsidedown...if not corrected.
Now...as the Galaxy is still forming a resolve...it would be prudent to say that the overall outcome of the two opposing forces are equally strong....one seems to be loosing the battler of domonance, and thus is collecting stars to increase its mass, in a unusual and unobserved way.
The outer arms are spinning in the wrong direction, as opposed to the curve of the arms.
So it looks like the outer is stronger in its mass, but the inner is intruth the stronger one to cause the backwardness and oddly spinning and displayed light.
One spin will eventually be the outcome...but because it is so odd...that outcome cannot be said or known or proven until it is final in its make up.
Now when I asked for a curve of the that..galaxy....a truthful answer would of been, it is unresolveable at this time.
And Then I would know that a scientific conversation is possible with you.
Cut and past was to prove my point.......we do not know everything...and because unknowns exist...they play a part in everything.....so to say this is true or fact.., when veriables (unknowns) are present, and evident in the observable field...then the truth of the any claims with any validity has to include the unknows...
All observations and all unknowns must be known to form Truth.
And humans do not have all truths...and they do not know all knowns...so they cannot make truth!
Just My observation....and perspective on that which is MY Observation...and that is the closest you come to the truth....
Now Jesus said he was telling the Truth....etc.
I believe he was!
And they killed him , and mirdered all his followers...to keep the truth from being known!
and it is still going on today....in oh so many ways....
Not much has changed since those times....infact they are the same old same old things being done over time...that the Bible expresses are EVIL....wonder why?
opposites...That's my reasoning...Everything God said to do, is not done, and everything God said don"t do is done...
Phaze would be interesting to formulate...and then there is recipricals....and alternates , and odd unions...and bi polar properties...ANTI matter......
Wonder what the equation will look like in a galaxy formation....?
Melvin George...Your not getting the message,,,......"Do no more sin and be forgiven"
Is it so hard to do?...and if you go the extra mile...sow some seeds, so more food is produced for the hungery....what is wrong with that????????????????
and by all means share...and be kind and civil towards all Living things....is this not a good moral?
Keep the the living things God made Good...and clean...and keep them well....in a natural habitation...
Do not harm the Earth.....I think that Goes without saying?....oh yah I'm dealing with stupid humans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So....are you going to argue something of merit here?.....
I think I have made some things perfectly clear....But here are some of my observations over the last 10 years...
Global warming due to pollution.
pollution of the planet with garbage and toxic waste.
Pollution of the wildlife.
Mad cows.
sick chickens, fowl, and the bird flu.
Tainted fish.
infected mosquitoes...and other insects carrying virus .
So...with just that in mind...And knowing God knows what I know.....there should be something coming to curb the mindless stupidity...especially when it is forewarned in the Bible not to do these things...or create the conditions that are detramental to the planet....
God is tempermental...
If you built something...and I came along and ruined it completely...would you hug me and say you love me?
Nah...you would hold me in some form of contempt...
And after re making the same thing again...with warning...I came along and screwed it up again purposely doing what you said not to do.....would you hug me, and tell me you love me?
How many times do you think this can go on for?
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