To: those who believe that the sun rotates around the earth (Biblically, pray)

[expect]

Originally Posted by rayneinspain

Care to share with us the extent of your astrophysics knowledge?

Heck, I'll settle for Calculus at this point.

i'd be impressed if she knew her multiplication tables

i wonder how this discussion would go if i approached her at starbucks or something and there was no way she could quote these websites directly. her head would probably explode or she'd run off. or shed pretend she was deaf until i left.

[rayneinspain]

Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme

Sure, soon as you prove that dark matter exists, and prove that God the Creator does not exist and has not spoken through His prophets, Enoch and Moses.

No, no, no...I quoted the original post you made. One for one.

ASTROPHYSICS.

No more deflection.

[NightBazaar]

Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme

An earthquake is from within the earth. There will be plenty of those then ,also, as well as tsunamis and great storms, besides droughts and famines and plagues and pestilences; but those listed from the OT and Enoch and the NT in my post are about the whole world being moved out of its fixed place and being turned upside down, jumping and staggering about, while the sun, moon, and stars are darkened; and the days will be shortened by one third of their hours, so that all flesh on earth does not perish by the great heat, when the sun is smitten by the bowl of wrath from the altar of God [as in Rev].

That is what is coming, and in that time, men will worship the host of heaven all over world; not just in India, but all over the world, because of them taking of the host of heaven for gods, by the delusion which God sends to them, because they would not receive the love of the Truth/Jesus Christ.

Not just in India? Where did that come from?

The description is exactly what one would expect about an earthquake. People experiencing a strong earthquake can well think it must be happening to the entire world. The sun, moon, and stars are darkened. Hmm. As I recall, many towns were as dark as night along the long path of the thick airborne cloud of ash from Mt. St. Helens.

[rifleman]

Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme

You cannot measure anything at all outside of your own little fishbowl existence in the world, as relates to space, and cosmologists are constantly being shocked by what they do 'discover' out in the universe, which cannot be explained by their mathematical formulas and theories; so they invent new fables all the time to try to account for what does not fit their 'science'.

Can't I now. How pleasant an accusation. Please list a few of these new "discoveries" that supposedly fly in the face of general knowledge about the universe, and do not just refine or improve on it. Show me, us, where science has now discovered that the Earth is the center of the universe. Please... elucidate us all. I'm asking politely.

No? You, like another poster here, are fond of making this stuff up, as though that takes the place of honest hard work, diligent calculation and observation. You continue to insult scientists, of which I, cncracer and a few others here proudly consider ourselves. We've been validated and accredited, BTW. and you? So, it's you who is hate-filled and demeaning about the supposed error-filled finds that your hated scientists are apparently making.

What I have read, on the other hand, is constant confirmation of what has already been discovered. That or refinements, but not general not willy-nilly rejection followed by acceptance of the nonsense of religious dogma.

As well, scientists I know are honest enough to recognize if a theory, no matter how long-held, needs to be dumped or renovated in light of newer, better findings. It's what we do, unlike the Church, who just suppresses. And the likes of you, who are stuck in fantasy land at all costs.

The relentless advancements in scientific tools makes recent finds more accurate, but it does not deny the insightfulness of ealy contributors, such as Darwin, that most despised and demeaned of your targeted demonizations. To make those sorts of statements really shows your hand, and how incapable you are of accepting new knowledge. A true stone-age mind on display!

(NOTE to moderator: before you biff me on the knuckles for this, remember, YSM is constantly hitting below the belt of science and the men/women of.... Most of them wouldn't give her the time of day, but I happen to have that time, and don't accept her endless insults any more. As in....)

You just regurgitate the current fable of science so called, because you have not been out there and actually tested what is there, and by the time you have regurgitated it, it has probably been debunked already, anyway.

Actually, YSM, I have been out there. My "fishbowl existence"? Nice! So tell us all then: when and where (with refs to the resulting peer-reviewed publication) have you ever been out in the real world on a research project under the strictest study guidelines so as to avoid biasing the experiment? Would you even know how I wonder?

I acquired several degrees, including two graduate ones, from accredited universities , in the sciences. The hoops I had to jump included rigorous peer review, meaning the requirement to defend my various theses and publications in front of a group of hard-core elitists whose job it is to make sure no-one slips by with a phoney-baloney bit of biased tripe, such as you suggest.

Not a bit of charlatan work. The type you claim we all do.

My science degrees required original research, unlike your accusation...

"because you have not been out there and actually tested what is there,"

...in several areas you cannot even spell, much less understand, and I am thus an acknowledged expert in areas you are not. Like biology, evolution, geology and a few other disciplines. Not bragging, just showing you how terribly wrong-headed and assumptive YOU are here.

But please... do continue to define and characterize yourself by your outlandish, illiterate and infantile statements as regards science and scientists. I reject out of hand those ridiculous, baseless criticisms, because I know exactly how hard the intelligent, honest and credible human objects of your hatred have worked, how elegant their research designs in seeking better understanding, and how ignorant and meaningless your criticisms are.

All of them I know are hard-working family men and women, many who are raising children to be critical thinkers [which of course you would happily suppress], with a sense of self-worth and interest in improving the human condition, and in solving medical problems (you, I'd bet, have probably benefited directly from their work along the way) and possessing of a natural curiosity you would happily suppress and deny. Go ahead and deny it, however your documented words here speak volumes otherwise.

Especially since you have proven to all of us here you don't know squat about the subject matter, or science in general, but are happy to regurgitate (your word, BTW) vast unconfined ignorance about the subject on cue. (just read your own post directly above...).

Quite impressive. You should be proud of your intellect on this subject!

[expect]

redshift proves geocentrism.

redshift:

In physics (especially the physics of astronomical objects), redshift is the appearance that an object is "redder" than it would appear to a hypothetical observer both closer to it and at rest relative to it. (In this context, the term "redder" means simply more red in simple situations where the object emits or reflects only visible light that is relatively monochromatic, and the object also appears to the observer to be within the visible spectrum. More generally, i.e., including cases where one or both observers would detect electromagnetic radiation outside the visible spectrum, "redder" amounts to a technical shorthand for "increased in electromagnetic wavelength" -- which implies being lower in both frequency and photon energy, in accord with, respectively, the wave and quantum theories of light.)
Redshifts manifest three different physical effects. The least involved is the Doppler effect, familiar via the changes in the apparent pitches of sirens and whistles as fast-moving vehicles or other gravitationally-induced effects; a star whose motion in its orbit is taking it further from the earth is redshifted. Cosmological redshift, a second effect, depends on distance rather than motion in a specific direction: the expansion of the universe, and sufficiently distant stars and galaxies show redshift corresponding to the rate of increase of their distance from Earth. Finally, gravitational redshifts are a relativistic effect observed in electromagnetic radiation from luminous material in extrememly high gravitational fields.


redshift proves geocentrism.

[Fullback32]

Ya know, back in the old days _100+ years ago), my Comanche people believed that the Creator lived in the sun...that the sun was his home. That's why the openings to the tipis (we say kahni) always faced the east, so that the when the people came out in the morning they could give thanks as the sun rose. It's also why we dance in a clockwise pattern to follow the path of the sun....Creator's home. Today, we don't believe that anymore, it's just tradition. Today, we all accept that the earth rotates around the sun. I'm just sayin'.

[yeshuasavedme]

Originally Posted by Fullback32

Ya know, back in the old days _100+ years ago), my Comanche people believed that the Creator lived in the sun...that the sun was his home. That's why the openings to the tipis (we say kahni) always faced the east, so that the when the people came out in the morning they could give thanks as the sun rose. It's also why we dance in a clockwise pattern to follow the path of the sun....Creator's home. Today, we don't believe that anymore, it's just tradition. Today, we all accept that the earth rotates around the sun. I'm just sayin'.

The Creator does have a created temple set in the created sun, that's what He says in the Word, in the original Hebrew, and that is why He told Moses this:
And the LORD said (8799) unto Moses, Take (8798) all the heads of the people, and hang them up (8685) before/in front of LORD [in his] sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away (8799) from Israel.

The original language is a command to hang them up so that the LORD sees them when His sun rises on them, because "In the sun hath He set His tabernacle", from where He comes down to visit the earth, and from where He scans intently the sons of Adam below, who are like grasshoppers in His sight, seen from there.

Douay-Rheims translation
Psalms 18

6 He hath set his tabernacle in the sun: and he, as a bridegroom coming out of his bride chamber, Hath rejoiced as a giant to run the way:

quote]yeshuasavedme, on another thread; Early man knew where God's dwelling place was, and they worshiped Him "from the rising of the sun to the going down of the same"; but over time, peoples of the tribes of earth changed His glory ,and worshiped the creation, instead of the Creator. Sun worship was not what was being depicted at first, when the sun was depicted as the dwelling place of the Unseen Creator, but later peoples did turn to worship the created thing, the house or dwelling of God, instead of God, Himself.[/quote]

Quote me, also, from another place:

Isaiah 18:4, in the original Hebrew, says the dazzling hot sun is the abode/dwelling place of YHWH.
Psalm 19:4 [original literal wording, without interpretation]: [He] set [His] tabernacle [in the] sun.
Psalm 18:5 Douay Rheims translation: He set His tabernacle in the sun
-a line in Isaiah 18:4 so YHWH said I will take my rest , I will scan intently/ponder [from My]dwelling place [the] dazzling hot sun

Also, in the DSS manuscript collection, we read the psalms for singing when the "light comes forth from His dwelling", at dawn.

From the Dead Sea Scrolls translated to English, published in 1994, translated by Wilfred G.E. Watson, I found this in the hymns on page 355,
Col XX (=XII + frags. 54 + 60)
line 4
[For the Instruc]tor, praises and prayers to bow down and entreat always,
from period to period:
when the light comes from His residence;
in the positions of the day, according to the regulation,
in accordance to the laws of the great luminary;
at the return of the evening, at the departure of light,
when the realm of the shades begins; at the appointed moment of the night, in their stations;
at the return of dawn, at the moment when it withdraws to its quarters before the light;
at the departure of night when day enters; continually.

[rifleman]

....redshift simply proves movement away from the observer. Relative movement, as it were. Optical Dopplerism. If the universe's objects were reliably revolving around us, there would of course be no redshift other than slight seasonal variations in the orbit metrics. But then, there'd also be a subsequent blueshift as they re-approached us on the other side of their orbit.

Not what we see. But in fact the measured redshift by Hubble in the 1920s proved an accelerating migration of most or all of the celestial bodies away from the now-calculated general center of the universe (the origin point for the Big Bang.)

In other simple words, if you determine a whole bunch of things are all moving away from a singular point, you can come to a fairly logical conclusion that previously they were closer to that point. With me so far? Then, if we calculate their relative rate of expansion, we can also reverse that calculation and estimate when they were close to a point of origin. Or, the Big Bang origin point. Simple, huh? Irrefutible and provable as well, unlike supernatural hand-waving.

Hubble's painstaking calculations (not, as YSM suggests, some dumb-a$$ errors or lies) showed us all of this. He was very conservative, but nonetheless his observation of the obvious showed us the possibilities of a Big Bang.

The Hubble Expansion

Hubble Measures the Expanding Universe

WMAP- Big Bang Expansion: the Hubble Constant

Need more? Just ask. As an ethical scientist-educator, I'm always ready to oblige and direct you to the right sources, especially when it involves debunking the "knowledge sabotage" sites (Answers in Genesis, XtremeRealityCheck.com, etc.)

Later curious predictions [as in: "if there were a Big Bang, what might we reasonably expect to see in the realms of residual radiation, effects on gravitation & light, the formation of stars and galaxies, etc. etc.?"] and the subsequent investigations, have resulted in a pretty robust theory given the evidence we have found.

We fully admit that it is just a theory for now, mind you, but one that's more and more profoundly supported with each new discovery. And we happily admit to the known holes in it. For now. A Big Bang, out of either "nothing" or another universe. Two colliding universes perhaps. I mean, there has to be some sort of explanation, right? It's only logical.

Or, it could all be the result of a mindless, mean-spirited Godly one, waving his hands and wriggling his nose, for no particular reason. And also "out of nothing". But for Christians, that problem is suddenly OK with them.

It's called "Selective Beliefs of Convenience", with all the pitfalls thereto.

[yeshuasavedme]

Originally Posted by NightBazaar

Not just in India? Where did that come from?

The description is exactly what one would expect about an earthquake. People experiencing a strong earthquake can well think it must be happening to the entire world. The sun, moon, and stars are darkened. Hmm. As I recall, many towns were as dark as night along the long path of the thick airborne cloud of ash from Mt. St. Helens.

They worship the host of heaven in Hinduism, and the Hindu Scriptures are tales of the gods and goddesses and their offspring.
Enoch says they will worship the host of heaven as gods, by delusion, in the tribulation, because of the changes in the heavens; and Paul says that is the strong delusion which is the specific lie they will believe, then, "because they did not receive the love of the Truth".


I experienced the Ash from Mt St Helens, and yes, it was dark, and we could not breathe the air without filters. We've been in a couple earthquakes, and no, that is not what it will be like when the earth is literally moved out of its place and turned upside down, and jumps about in heaven like a "hunted roe", and staggars like a drunken man; when the seasons are backwards because the earth is, literally, turned upside down.

[rifleman]

And what is "upside down" for the Earth, pray tell? How would we know? Is Australia really "down under"? I visited there several times, and don't recall having to hang on...