U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
Old 03-15-2010, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,961 posts, read 18,553,357 times
Reputation: 9891

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny View Post
Funny.... I used the same method and it ended up reaffirming as well asa changing some of my theistic beliefs. In fact, I recommend this method for any atheist with an open mind and heart who wishes to become a theist (and therein lies the crux of the matter - most atheists are atheists purely by choice and not based on open-minded exploration of their own beliefs).
You may as well give up....You obviously know little or nothing about atheists...We don't believe simply because the religious myths make no sense, and are just not believable to us....Nothing to do with choice...Many of us were raised religious, and know the bible as well or better than many of the religious.......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-15-2010, 03:55 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
4,086 posts, read 5,105,060 times
Reputation: 2532
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
You may as well give up....You obviously know little or nothing about atheists...We don't believe simply because the religious myths make no sense, and are just not believable to us....Nothing to do with choice...Many of us were raised religious, and know the bible as well or better than many of the religious.......
All people choose what they believe. The atheist, however, precludes the possbility of the existence of anything beyond the natural world and bases this on the premise that his physical senses are the only trustworthy source for determining truth. That premise is a chosen one and is not open-minded. That's the difference. Atheists preclude metaphysics, whereas theists and agnostics do not. An agnostic atheist comes close to being open-minded but his flippant dismissal of the metaphysical often indicates that his agnosticism is merely a facade. To put it simply: atheists open-minded to the physical but not the metaphysical, whereas all others are open-minded (in varying degrees) to the physical AND the metaphysical.

That is why someone who is educated and truly open-minded would likely never be an atheist, as it requires a certain amount of closed-mindedness to make an assertion against the metaphysical when in fact such an assertion is only made possible by choosing a worldview that is philosophically arbitrarily limited.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2010, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,961 posts, read 18,553,357 times
Reputation: 9891
Quote:
Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny View Post
All people choose what they believe. The atheist, however, precludes the possbility of the existence of anything beyond the natural world and bases this on the premise that his physical senses are the only trustworthy source for determining truth. That premise is a chosen one and is not open-minded. That's the difference. Atheists preclude metaphysics, whereas theists and agnostics do not. An agnostic atheist comes close to being open-minded but his flippant dismissal of the metaphysical often indicates that his agnosticism is merely a facade. To put it simply: atheists open-minded to the physical but not the metaphysical, whereas all others are open-minded (in varying degrees) to the physical AND the metaphysical.

That is why someone who is educated and truly open-minded would likely never be an atheist, as it requires a certain amount of closed-mindedness to make an assertion against the metaphysical when in fact such an assertion is only made possible by choosing a worldview that is philosophically arbitrarily limited.
Once again you demonstrate that you do not understand atheism....Most atheists do not say that God does not exist. They say that it is very unlikely he does, so have the integrity to say " I don't know" when confronted with that which is unexplainable. The theists makes all sorts of unsupportable claims for that which cannot be known...So who has the closed mind? Those that fill in the gaps of knowledge with unprovable stories, or those who honestly say I don't know?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2010, 04:18 PM
 
23,191 posts, read 11,396,093 times
Reputation: 3932
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
You just cannot reply without an insult can you? Because my opinions are different from yours I am arrogant? What is undeniable to you I have no trouble denying..I believe the universe was born out of chaos. I see no hand of god in any of it.
You see insult where you wish to whether it is there or not. But what "hand" do you SEE in it? That is your cop-out! You wish to default to your view without ANY supporting rationale or proof AS IF that were scientific. It is the assumption of the default (NOT proclaiming ignorance) as the basis of reality that exudes arrogance. Atheists do NOT proclaim "we don't know". . . they demand that their ignorance (not knowing) be considered the default position without proof . . . and all others must somehow be proven. THAT is arrogance. IF you adopt it . . . you are arrogant. IF not you are not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2010, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,961 posts, read 18,553,357 times
Reputation: 9891
Even your opinions are insulting, Mr. "I know I'm right"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2010, 04:57 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 18,583,572 times
Reputation: 14472
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
and all others must somehow be proven. THAT is arrogance.
Nope, that's Missouri! Show me!

You are confusing arrogance with burden of proof.

Atheist do not argue that America is an Atheist country.

Atheist do not regale the public with Our Atheist Traditions.

Atheist do not demand adherence to social behavior's because it is the "Word" of Atheist.

Atheist do not claim that denying atheism will lead to eternal damnation.

On the whole, I think that if you are going to make such claims the burden of proof shifts to the persons making such claims.

So, far you have failed miserably with producing evidence based upon a preponderance of evidence much less beyond all reasonable doubt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2010, 05:10 PM
 
23,191 posts, read 11,396,093 times
Reputation: 3932
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
So, far you have failed miserably with producing evidence based upon a preponderance of evidence much less beyond all reasonable doubt.
See . . . this assumption that all the evidence points to your default of no God . . . while offering no alternate source for the existence of everything . . . including your evidence . . . except for an alternative name, "Nature" . . . THAT is arrogance!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2010, 05:56 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 18,583,572 times
Reputation: 14472
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
See . . . this assumption that all the evidence points to your default of no God . . . while offering no alternate source for the existence of everything . . . including your evidence . . . except for an alternative name, "Nature" . . . THAT is arrogance!
The assumption is that this "default" position is the starting point rather than one derived from experience and investigation, when the true default position is to credit god for any unexplainable phenomenon.

There is nothing arrogant about stating facts, we have looked around and found no evidence for the existence of god. Arrogance, in fact the height of arrogance, is that god has revealed himself to you due to some worthiness which others cannot comprehend. We, atheist, make no such claims.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2010, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,961 posts, read 18,553,357 times
Reputation: 9891
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
See . . . this assumption that all the evidence points to your default of no God . . . while offering no alternate source for the existence of everything . . . including your evidence . . . except for an alternative name, "Nature" . . . THAT is arrogance!
So according to you saying "I don't know" (atheist statement) is arrogant, but insisting that something unproven exists (Theist statement) is not? I thought I had heard everything.....I guess not. What you call arrogant, I call honest....Perhaps you should give it a try sometime.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2010, 07:23 PM
 
23,191 posts, read 11,396,093 times
Reputation: 3932
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
The assumption is that this "default" position is the starting point rather than one derived from experience and investigation, when the true default position is to credit god for any unexplainable phenomenon.

There is nothing arrogant about stating facts, we have looked around and found no evidence for the existence of god. Arrogance, in fact the height of arrogance, is that god has revealed himself to you due to some worthiness which others cannot comprehend. We, atheist, make no such claims.
More reading comprehension difficulties . . . your position is "I see no hand of god in any of it." I said:

But what "hand" do you SEE in it? That is your cop-out! You wish to default to your "no God" view without ANY supporting rationale or proof AS IF that were scientific. It is the assumption of the default as the basis of reality that exudes arrogance. Atheists do NOT proclaim "we don't know". . . If they actually did there would be no issue with them. But they demand that their ignorance (not knowing) be considered the "no God exists" default position without proof . . . and demand that all others must somehow be proven. THAT is arrogance. IF you adopt it . . . you are arrogant. IF not you are not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:45 AM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top