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Old 03-14-2010, 03:15 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,160 posts, read 9,149,093 times
Reputation: 2023

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Moderator: We’re here today to debate the hot new topic, evolution versus Intelligent Des—
(Scientist pulls out baseball bat.)
Moderator: Hey, what are you doing?
(Scientist breaks Intelligent Design advocate’s kneecap.)
Intelligent Design advocate: YEAAARRRRGGGHHHH! YOU BROKE MY KNEECAP!
Scientist: Perhaps it only appears that I broke your kneecap. Certainly, all the evidence points to the hypothesis I broke your kneecap. For example, your kneecap is broken; it appears to be a fresh wound; and I am holding a baseball bat, which is spattered with your blood. However, a mere preponderance of evidence doesn’t mean anything. Perhaps your kneecap was designed that way. Certainly, there are some features of the current situation that are inexplicable according to the “naturalistic” explanation you have just advanced, such as the exact contours of the excruciating pain that you are experiencing right now.
Intelligent Design advocate: AAAAH! THE PAIN!
Scientist: Frankly, I personally find it completely implausible that the random actions of a scientist such as myself could cause pain of this particular kind. I have no precise explanation for why I find this hypothesis implausible — it just is. Your knee must have been designed that way!
Intelligent Design advocate: YOU *******! YOU KNOW YOU DID IT!
Scientist: I surely do not. How can we know anything for certain? Frankly, I think we should expose people to all points of view. Furthermore, you should really re-examine whether your hypothesis is scientific at all: the breaking of your kneecap happened in the past, so we can’t rewind and run it over again, like a laboratory experiment. Even if we could, it wouldn’t prove that I broke your kneecap the previous time. Plus, let’s not even get into the fact that the entire universe might have just popped into existence right before I said this sentence, with all the evidence of my alleged kneecap-breaking already pre-formed.
Intelligent Design advocate: That’s a load of ******** sophistry! Get me a doctor and a lawyer, not necessarily in that order, and we’ll see how that plays in court!
Scientist (turning to audience): And so we see, ladies and gentlemen, when push comes to shove, advocates of Intelligent Design do not actually believe any of the arguments that they profess to believe. When it comes to matters that hit home, they prefer evidence, the scientific method, testable hypotheses, and naturalistic explanations. In fact, they strongly privilege naturalistic explanations over supernatural hocus-pocus or metaphysical wankery. It is only within the reality-distortion field of their ideological crusade that they give credence to the flimsy, ridiculous arguments which we so commonly see on display. I must confess, it kind of felt good, for once, to be the one spouting free-form ********; it’s so terribly easy and relaxing, compared to marshaling rigorous arguments backed up by empirical evidence. But I fear that if I were to continue, then it would be habit-forming, and bad for my soul. Therefore, I bid you adieu.
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Old 03-15-2010, 06:41 AM
 
5,458 posts, read 6,696,761 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Personal perceptions of reality always differ in the SPECIFICS . . . but not in the essentials.
This implies that existence of god isn't essential, since personal perceptions of this concept differ.
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Old 03-15-2010, 06:52 AM
 
5,458 posts, read 6,696,761 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
Likewise, science is unauthoritative when it comes to matters of spirituality and faith. Science has no authority to say that God does not exist on the grounds that scientific processes supposedly cannot discern his existence because he himself is not physical and therefore is not subject to scientific testing, measurement, etc.
Please show us how you know this to be true. If it is simply something you assume, then we can assume the opposite and be equally likely to be right. After all, any claim based on assumptions is on equal footing with any other claim based on assumptions regardless of what those assumptions are, as you've told us many times.
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Old 03-15-2010, 07:30 AM
 
598 posts, read 915,119 times
Reputation: 141
Theist: "God had spoken, why don't you listen!"
Atheist: "And what exactly did God say?"
Theist: "Here, in the scriptures, it says if you don't believe, you're going to hell!"
Atheist: "How do you those are God's words. Humans put words in God's mouth all the time."
Theist: "How do you know those are not God's words? It's your faith against my faith!"
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Old 03-15-2010, 09:39 AM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,726,177 times
Reputation: 7792
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Personal perceptions of reality always differ in the SPECIFICS . . . but not in the essentials.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
This implies that existence of god isn't essential, since personal perceptions of this concept differ.
Reading comprehension and logic are not your forte . . . are they?This implies that the SPECIFICS about the existence of God aren't essential . . . just His existence.
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Old 03-15-2010, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,502 posts, read 36,999,655 times
Reputation: 13967
It would be refreshing to see your respond without first insulting the person you are responding to, but I guess you just can't help yourself (not your forte, huh) What makes you state , as if it were a fact that god's existence is essential?
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Old 03-15-2010, 11:17 AM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,726,177 times
Reputation: 7792
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
It would be refreshing to see your respond without first insulting the person you are responding to, but I guess you just can't help yourself (not your forte, huh) What makes you state , as if it were a fact that god's existence is essential?
When someone repeatedly mistates or mischaracterizes what is plainly said . . . it deserves to be pointed out. It is undeniable that the attributes of the universe we inhabit require SOMETHING to establish its non-chaotic characteristics. Whatever that something IS . . . the scale on which its influence exists is undeniably God-like. I prefer my God to your "Nature". . . and there is no scientific way to distinguish between them. So . . . to assume yours as the default is arrogance . . . NOT science.
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Old 03-15-2010, 12:23 PM
 
2,884 posts, read 5,914,950 times
Reputation: 1991
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is undeniable that the attributes of the universe we inhabit require SOMETHING to establish its non-chaotic characteristics.
Yes it is.

It is absolutely deniable that the universe require a creator. Just because you don't agree is not justification to call someone else an idiot. That is not respectful debate.

I used to try and read what you write, because you have some interesting ideas, but your continued arrogance and attacks on those who question or disagree with you have completely soured me on your message.

You don't hold all the cards. Get off your high horse.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:01 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
4,085 posts, read 8,759,239 times
Reputation: 2691
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Lets be done with semantics and get back to the topic. I was once a theist and atheism was made easy for me simply by researching and objectively (not blindly) reading the bible. I recommend this method for anyone wishing to lose their belief.
Funny.... I used the same method and it ended up reaffirming as well asa changing some of my theistic beliefs. In fact, I recommend this method for any atheist with an open mind and heart who wishes to become a theist (and therein lies the crux of the matter - most atheists are atheists purely by choice and not based on open-minded exploration of their own beliefs).
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,502 posts, read 36,999,655 times
Reputation: 13967
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
When someone repeatedly mistates or mischaracterizes what is plainly said . . . it deserves to be pointed out. It is undeniable that the attributes of the universe we inhabit require SOMETHING to establish its non-chaotic characteristics. Whatever that something IS . . . the scale on which its influence exists is undeniably God-like. I prefer my God to your "Nature". . . and there is no scientific way to distinguish between them. So . . . to assume yours as the default is arrogance . . . NOT science.
You just cannot reply without an insult can you? Because my opinions are different from yours I am arrogant? What is undeniable to you I have no trouble denying..I believe the universe was born out of chaos. I see no hand of god in any of it.
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