U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-07-2012, 01:11 AM
 
34,481 posts, read 8,888,267 times
Reputation: 4788

Advertisements

You know, truthteller, in the modern age when Christianity has been adapted to look not too absurd, it is sometimes a shock to go back and read discarded gospels and ludicrous miracles about making clay birds come to life.

Reading your bland claims about this utterly mythical and unbelievable tale comes across rather like that. If anything, it makes we westerners even more convinced that Islam is something best avoided for the sake of our mental health.

Have a nice life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-07-2012, 08:45 AM
 
4,986 posts, read 7,762,252 times
Reputation: 2869
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
no need for proof when you know that the Quran is from Allah.
http://www.ymsite.com/books/amazing_quran.htm#intro
Thank you. You just proved my point. Who needs actual facts/proof/evidence when you can put your sole faith and reliance into a single source of writing? Just presume that all the information it contains is nothing less than absolute fact, even if a story was only meant to illustrate a concept about choices and consequences, reward and punishment. Discard all knowledge from any source other than the Quran. If you are to take what you say as being all there is needed to know, then you should reject anything and everything else that isn't written in the Quran. Tear down all universities and systems of knowledge. They must be wrong. Burn all hospitals and ban all physicians. There's no need for them. Throw away your computer, automobile, television and refrigerator. These are evil and destructive instruments of technology. Choose a cave as your new home, and leisurely hunt for wild nuts, grains, fruits and other edibles to eat. Surely the Quran alone will provide everything you'll ever need to know and do in order to live. If it isn't written in the Quran, then it can't possibly be true. But that's not how life actually works, does it?

I'm not saying there's no value to the Quran, or texts of other religions for that matter. I'm saying we aren't mindless zombies. We have minds to think and learn with. We have creative abilities to build and develop better ways to do things. You cannot learn or develop anything without proof that it actually works, which in turn will make it either true or false. At one time when people became sick, it was thought to be a punishment from God for some kind of wrong-doing, or a curse from some evil entity. We now know more about viruses and bacteria... which is proof that illness is neither a punishment nor a curse. As I recall, recently, some factions in Pakistan are demanding that donations of medicine and medical supplies be refused entry into the country. Doing so will mean people will needlessly become sick and die when it could easily be prevented. That, my friend, is not just ignorance, but a willful intent to let people die. It's just a form of indirect murder.

Since the Quran provides the story of a person being swallowed by a large sea creature, be it whale, fish or anything else, and survives for three days without harm, then it must be proof that it actually happened?

There's nothing wrong with having faith or belief about something. We all do in one way or another. I have faith that the sun will cast light tomorrow. The evidence (among other things) aupporting that belief is that it happens every single day. Faith or belief without any evidence supporting it amounts to blind faith, and blind faith has a much higher risk of being completely wrong more often than not. That's not necessarily a criticism of the Quran, but rather a criticism of people who blindly choose to believe certain things that have no evidence or proof to support their 'faith', or base their belief on incorrect information. That kind of flaw is not limited to muslims. Many Christians do the same thing. It all gets down to beliefs that are based on habitualistic ritualism - believing certain things without any question whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
The story of the Great Flood and Noah is also in the Quran .

... And it (the ship) rested on (Mount) Judi, and it was said: "Away with the people who are Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers)!"
So then are you saying that the Quran predates the Epic of Gilgamesh?

Hmm, you say Mount Judi, while others say Mount Ararat. Okay, other than the Quran, is there ANY evidence (artifacts) that supports Mount Judi as Noah's landing spot?

Interestingly, like it or not, there are polytheists and wrong-doers to this very day. Evidently, they weren't all wiped out by the Great Flood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post

Allah inspired the whale to swallow Yunus (Jonah) without scratching his meat, or break his bones .
Ouch! Having your meat scratched doesn't sound very pleasant. LOL! Having broken bones wouldn't be fun either. It's not about having scratched meat or broken bones. It's about being smothered to death with no air to breath. I trust you looked at the photos in the link I provided which show what the inside of a whale's stomach looks like. You'd be dead before you ever reached the stomach because the muscles and lining of the esophagus would completely cover your face as you're slowly being pulled in toward the stomach. Even if somehow you could survive the trip into the stomach, and the stomach was completely empty of any digested food, goop and debris, the stomach simply isn't large enough to contain enough air to keep a person alive for three days and nights. And that, my friend, is a fact (proof).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2012, 01:56 AM
 
1,860 posts, read 1,530,884 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post

Have you ever used this prayer in a time of need, if you don't mind me asking? I'm curious as to whether it is a common prayer, or reserved for special occasions

.yes I say it and it is used when some one is in calamity or crisis .

The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said
“The prayer of Dhu’l-Noon (Prophet Jonah peace be upon him )
when he was in the belly of the fish:
Laa ilaaha illa Anta, subhaanaka inni kuntu min al-zaalimeen (There is no god but You, glory to You, verily I was one of the wrongdoers).
A Muslim never calls upon his Lord with these words concerning any matter, but his prayer is answered

i think i have narrowed the occasions of this prayer to calamity or crisis but actually it is used for anything you want to be relieved from it big or small.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2012, 05:23 AM
 
1,860 posts, read 1,530,884 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Thank you. You just proved my point. Who needs actual facts/proof/evidence when you can put your sole faith and reliance into a single source of writing?

the Quran was dictated by Allah
and it proves itself
and that is why i gave you a link for a western Doctor that show the miracles in the
Quran and here is another one by another western Doctor
The Quran and Modern Dr Maurice Bucaille


Quote:
If you are to take what you say as being all there is needed to know, then you should reject anything and everything else that isn't written in the Quran. Tear down all universities and systems of knowledge. They must be wrong. Burn all hospitals and ban all physicians
“The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:
‘Allaah has sent down the disease and the cure,
and has made for every disease the cure.
So treat sickness, but do not use anything haraam’
the Prophet is advising us to use the cure and search for it.


Quote:
Since the Quran provides the story of a person being swallowed by a large sea creature, be it whale, fish or anything else, and survives for three days without harm, then it must be proof that it actually happened?
when the origin thing is proved that the branches are automatically approved.

the religion identified the origin of human . did the science identified the origin of human.



Logical Proof for God - YouTube



‫





Quote:
the stomach simply isn't large enough to contain enough air to keep a person alive for three days and nights. And that, my friend, is a fact (proof).

he could be stay there till the Day of Resurrection but his prayers made Allah release him.
Had he not been of them who glorify Allah,

He would have indeed remained inside its belly (the fish) till the Day of Resurrection . The Noble Quran.
Quote:
So then are you saying that the Quran predates the Epic of Gilgamesh?

Allah is the first and the Last.

the story of Adam and Eve is also in the Quran
And when We said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam, they fell prostrate (all) save Iblis; he refused.

Therefor we said: O Adam! This is an enemy unto thee and unto thy wife, so let him not drive you both out of the Garden so that thou come to toil.

It is (vouchsafed) unto thee that thou hungerest not therein nor art naked,

And that thou thirstest not therein nor art exposed to the sun's heat.

But the devil whispered to him, saying: O Adam! Shall I show thee the tree of immortality and power that wasteth not away?

Then they twain ate thereof, so that their shame became apparent unto them, and they began to hide by heaping on themselves some of the leaves of the Garden. And Adam disobeyed his Lord, so went astray.

Then his Lord chose him, and relented toward him, and guided him.

He said: Go down hence, both of you, one of you a foe unto the other. But when there come unto you from Me a guidance, then whoso followeth My guidance, he will not go astray nor come to grief. . The Noble Quran.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2012, 10:13 AM
 
4,986 posts, read 7,762,252 times
Reputation: 2869
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
the Quran was dictated by Allah
and it proves itself
and that is why i gave you a link for a western Doctor that show the miracles in the
Quran and here is another one by another western Doctor
Obviously the Quran was written by someone. To say it was dictated by Allah is faith-based without proof or evidence. Sorry, but the doctors are only giving a faith-based opinion. It does not provide evidence. That doesn't mean others have all the answers to everything. Do unusual things happen? Of course. That doesn't mean it must be a divine miracle. It only means that the doctors you point out are be subject to believing (faith-based) certain things to be true regardless of whether it's actually true or not. It stems right back to a belief that the Quran is the ultimate and sole source of all information.


Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
“The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:
‘Allaah has sent down the disease and the cure,
and has made for every disease the cure.
So treat sickness, but do not use anything haraam’
the Prophet is advising us to use the cure and search for it.
Hmm, if there's a cure for every disease, then it's surprising that anyone gets sick at all. While some people may be able to seek (and afford) medical assistance, many others do not have access to such cures. Such unfortunate people have no other choice that to rely on folk medicine, which sometimes helps but often does nothing. These people may be just as firm in their belief of the Quran as you, but they can still die from illness or disease, some of which is preventable or have cures. Are they less deserving? Haraam (sinfulness) has nothing to do with it. We have universities and research centers that help improve our knowledge. Although the prophet may have advised searching for cures and using them, that's known as practical advise. People do not have to be religious to understand that. Once again, your example shows no evidence of divine dictation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
when the origin thing is proved that the branches are automatically approved.

the religion identified the origin of human . did the science identified the origin of human.
Religion has NOT factually identified the origin of humans. It offers fanciful speculation based solely on ancient writings, which is purely faith-based without any evidence.


Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
he could be stay there till the Day of Resurrection but his prayers made Allah release him.
Had he not been of them who glorify Allah,

He would have indeed remained inside its belly (the fish) till the Day of Resurrection . The Noble Quran.
And what condition would a person have to be in to become resurrected? Dead or alive? Had Jonah actually ended up in the belly of a whale/fish, he'd be dead or dying before he ever got to the belly. The story of Jonah is just a story.


Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
Allah is the first and the Last.


the story of Adam and Eve is also in the Quran

And when We said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam, they fell prostrate (all) save Iblis; he refused.

Therefor we said: O Adam! This is an enemy unto thee and unto thy wife, so let him not drive you both out of the Garden so that thou come to toil.

It is (vouchsafed) unto thee that thou hungerest not therein nor art naked,

And that thou thirstest not therein nor art exposed to the sun's heat.

But the devil whispered to him, saying: O Adam! Shall I show thee the tree of immortality and power that wasteth not away?

Then they twain ate thereof, so that their shame became apparent unto them, and they began to hide by heaping on themselves some of the leaves of the Garden. And Adam disobeyed his Lord, so went astray.

Then his Lord chose him, and relented toward him, and guided him.

He said: Go down hence, both of you, one of you a foe unto the other. But when there come unto you from Me a guidance, then whoso followeth My guidance, he will not go astray nor come to grief. . The Noble Quran.
That has absolutely nothing to do with my question. It should be easy enough to answer.
Was the Quran written before the Epic of Gilgamesh?

What you consistently seem to provide are strings of unrelated quotes from the Quran when you are unable to directly respond to points or questons without providing any facts or evidence that prove and support extraordinary claims. On the other hand, I, as well as others, have given supportive proof to show that you can't remain alive (for obvious reasons) in the belly of a large sea creature. The only response from the religiously inclined is that it must be a miracle of Allah (God), which doesn't provide any proof of the claim. It gets back to what I said about sole faith-based reliance on ancient reliigious writings. Don't worry. Muslims are not the only ones who do that. It's typical of most religions who are unable to give a direct response. Instead, they fall back on giving endless quotes.

It's not that I don't understand your reasons. You are certainly entitled to choose your religious beliefs, just as anyone else is entitled to their beliefs. But when it comes to providing hard facts and evidence to support such claims, it gets a lot more difficult. Perhaps the problem is that by trying to tackle such matters, you're biting off far more than you can chew?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2012, 11:45 AM
 
Location: West africa, Nigeria
11 posts, read 8,514 times
Reputation: 14
With God all tins are possible wit im, he can command a big stone 2even swallow anytin be it human or animal n sti survive it he want 2. I call im D God dat maks d impossibilities 2become possible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2012, 11:04 AM
 
1,860 posts, read 1,530,884 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Obviously the Quran was written by someone. To say it was dictated by Allah is faith-based without proof or evidence. Sorry, but the doctors are only giving a faith-based opinion. It does not provide evidence.





the above picture sign about the Lowest Place On Earth.

in that place the Romans was defeated by the Persians .

how did the world know that this place is the Lowest Place On Earth?
by satellite and tools.

but the quran mentioned it more than 1400 years ago by Allah
is this a faith-based or a knowledge scientific.
Alif, Lam, Mim.
The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land, The Noble Quran.
Quote:
.
Hmm, if there's a cure for every disease, then it's surprising that anyone gets sick at all. While some people may be able to seek (and afford) medical assistance, many others do not have access to such cures. Such unfortunate people have no other choice that to rely on folk medicine, which sometimes helps but often does nothing. These people may be just as firm in their belief of the Quran as you, but they can still die from illness or disease, some of which is preventable or have cures. Are they less deserving?
for sure there is a cure for every disease but we do not know the cure for every disease.

The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said:
Allah has not sent down any disease but He has also sent down the cure
the one who knows it knows it and the one who does not know it does not know it.
Quote:
.
Religion has NOT factually identified the origin of humans. It offers fanciful speculation based solely on ancient writings, which is purely faith-based without any evidence..
not only that but also told us about why we have different colors

The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said:
'Allah created Adam from a handful that He gathered from the entire earth,
so the sons of Adam come like the earth.
Some of them are red, some are white,
some are black and some are in between.
Some of them are easy, some of them are difficult,
some are evil and some are good.".
Quote:
.
And what condition would a person have to be in to become resurrected? Dead or alive? Had Jonah actually ended up in the belly of a whale/fish, he'd be dead or dying before he ever got to the belly. The story of Jonah is just a story.

we muslim believe that the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is alive until now and his condition is
controled by Allah and same thing Jonah was alive and controled by Allah .

we also believe that jesus did not die for three days and he did not die even for one second
and in the bible jesus said
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
but jonah was alive that means jesus was alive, he also was not crucified.



Quote:
.
That has absolutely nothing to do with my question. It should be easy enough to answer.
Was the Quran written before the Epic of Gilgamesh??
the quran was written about 1420 years ago but its source is Allah and that why i said Allah is the first
and that why i mentioned the story of Adam and Eve because they are before the flood and before any human history
and the Quran came after them.



Quote:
. It's not that I don't understand your reasons. You are certainly entitled to choose your religious beliefs
there are many reasons for me that make me belive in Allah.
one of the most logical reasons that make me 100% sure and comfortable is my existence .
i did not exist because of Inanimate Objects or something similar let alone how did they exist ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top