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Old 04-28-2017, 06:30 PM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
10,303 posts, read 10,399,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
Charles Taze Russell was NOT a Freemason. The Masons have no problem listing famous men from the past who were members, including those they aren't particularly proud of, such as Benedict Arnold. However, I can't find a single list (provided by a Masonic organization) that has his name on it. Regardless of whatever he may (or may not) have been, being a Freemason was not part of his identity.
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,808 posts, read 1,521,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Charles Taze Russell was NOT a Freemason. The Masons have no problem listing famous men from the past who were members, including those they aren't particularly proud of, such as Benedict Arnold. However, I can't find a single list (provided by a Masonic organization) that has his name on it. Regardless of whatever he may (or may not) have been, being a Freemason was not part of his identity.
Not to mention that teaching contrary to Witness doctrine is considered apostasy and punishable by disfellowshipping; it makes no sense whatsoever that Russell would be buried on Society property were he to profess to be a Mason.
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Old 04-29-2017, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
1,426 posts, read 1,145,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Charles Taze Russell was NOT a Freemason. The Masons have no problem listing famous men from the past who were members, including those they aren't particularly proud of, such as Benedict Arnold. However, I can't find a single list (provided by a Masonic organization) that has his name on it. Regardless of whatever he may (or may not) have been, being a Freemason was not part of his identity.

then how do you explain the document i found where he admitted being a freemason?
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Old 04-29-2017, 01:20 PM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
10,303 posts, read 10,399,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
then how do you explain the document i found where he admitted being a freemason?
I can't find the article to read it myself. The Herald Magazine does not represent any branch of Freemasonry, the Jehovah's Witnesses, or Charles Taze Russell. I have no idea how to authenticate any document they present. The paragraph you posted does not look like the way a Mason would speak about himself. It looks (to me) like he is saying "we are all masons" the same way Rev. Al Sharpton said "We are all Trevon Martin." It was figurative, not literal.

I just double checked. Neither the Pennsylvania Grand Lodge nor the Pittsburgh Lodge #45 maintain a list of famous masons on their web sites. However, the Hawaii Grand Lodge does. Here it is: http://hawaiifreemason.org/resources/famous-masons.pdf There are other lists maintained by Grand Lodges. I believe that British Columbia maintains a list.

Had he been a member of a recognized lodge of Freemasons, it would have been noted with the lodge name & number (in almost all jurisdictions [Massachusetts doesn't use Lodge numbers]), the Grand Lodge jurisdiction, and any office he may have held. Along with the lodge name and number, a legitimate mason would also include the initials F&AM or AF&AM.

For example, he would have said he was a member of Pittsburgh Lodge, #45, AF&AM, where he served as Secretary and Chaplain. (Strictly for example purposes only.) He said nothing of the sort in the paragraph you quoted.
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Old 04-29-2017, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
I can't find the article to read it myself.
It's one of Russell's public addresses from 1913, and the part Meester-Chung is quoting is usually taken out of context and without regard to its use as a rhetorical device; proponents of the 'Russell was a Mason' claim usually disregard anything that contradicts that one part of the whole (which includes another passage where he clearly states that he has never been a Mason).

Incidentally, it's the same one that Meester-Chung previously dismissed as being a 'doctored version', as though the Watchtower Society routinely covers up apostasy and secretly hides Freemasons in their congregations (which, as I've pointed out, is completely ridiculous when you consider that apostate Witnesses are disfellowshipped (effectively 'excommunicated') and shunned by the rest of the congregation).

And yes, the BC Grand Lodge maintains records, and has officially gone on record to state that Russell was not a Mason. In addition, the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania, The Grand Lodge of Ireland, and the United Grand Lodge of England have no record of his membership.

Last edited by FredNotBob; 04-29-2017 at 04:15 PM..
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Old 04-29-2017, 06:42 PM
 
Location: California USA
852 posts, read 572,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
...and this is why religion, all religion, should be banned from the public arena folks.
And live in a militant atheist utopia where all people are free from the shackles of religion and build societies based on rationale thought while stomping out any belief that there may be more to life than random existence and eternal death.
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Old 04-29-2017, 06:49 PM
 
16,096 posts, read 9,279,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob View Post
It's one of Russell's public addresses from 1913, and the part Meester-Chung is quoting is usually taken out of context and without regard to its use as a rhetorical device; proponents of the 'Russell was a Mason' claim usually disregard anything that contradicts that one part of the whole (which includes another passage where he clearly states that he has never been a Mason).

Incidentally, it's the same one that Meester-Chung previously dismissed as being a 'doctored version', as though the Watchtower Society routinely covers up apostasy and secretly hides Freemasons in their congregations (which, as I've pointed out, is completely ridiculous when you consider that apostate Witnesses are disfellowshipped (effectively 'excommunicated') and shunned by the rest of the congregation).

And yes, the BC Grand Lodge maintains records, and has officially gone on record to state that Russell was not a Mason. In addition, the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania, The Grand Lodge of Ireland, and the United Grand Lodge of England have no record of his membership.
Was he saying that he was a member of the Free Masons Society? Absolutely not! The context shows that he was referring to “Bible masonry”, not the human organization that goes by the name of ‘Free Masons”. He was using Free Masonry terminology to illustrate the Biblical building being done by God through His church. — See: Luke 6:47,48; Romans 14:19; 1 Corinthians 3:9,10,12; 14:12,26; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 4:7-16; 1 Thessalonians 5:11; Revelation 3:12. In that same sermon, Russell, in referring to the human organization called “Masons,” said, “I have never been a Mason.”



The sermon was delivered by Charles Taze Russell at in 1913, and appears in Pastor Russell’s Convention Discourses, beginning on page 359. Some enemies of Russell have taken portions of this sermon out of context in order to make it appear that Russell was a member of the Freemason organization, or that he was being highly influenced by Freemasons. Of course, those who are familiar with Russell’s writings know he was not a member of the Freemason organization, and that Brother Russell was only interested in the comparison of masonry (building) with the building of the spiritual temple of God as spoken of in the Bible, and the fact that the building work of God’s temple is not understood by the world. The tens of thousands of pages that have been produced from the works give solid evidence that Russell was not in support of the goals of the Freemason organization. Indeed, in this sermon he plainly states: “I have never been a Mason.”
From the same sermon, that the apostates never reference: Page 361 of Convention Report Sermons.
If you think it is the will of God you should join the Odd Fellows, and don’t feel you are Odd Fellow enough in becoming a follower of the Lord, go and join the Odd Fellows. If you feel that you want to become a member of the Free and Accepted Order of Masonry, and do not feel free and Masonic enough as a follower of Christ, God bless you, use your judgment; that is yours to decide, not mine. But now I am talking about this great order of masonry of which Jesus is the Grand Master.
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Old 04-29-2017, 06:53 PM
 
Location: California USA
852 posts, read 572,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I think Jehovah Witnesses hurt people, although the more simple-minded of them may not realize it.

I think they destroy families.

I think the men who run the organization are evil.
I think in the end love trumps hate.
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Old 04-29-2017, 10:30 PM
Status: "Phlegmatic." (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,398 posts, read 12,098,827 times
Reputation: 10666
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
I think in the end love trumps hate.
To the masochist, a beating is an expression of love.

I feel very sorry for JWs. I think they are Christian masochists.

But very much sorrier for their children and the simple-minded others who are under their influence.
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Old 04-30-2017, 12:16 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,905 posts, read 9,668,418 times
Reputation: 2404
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
And live in a militant atheist utopia where all people are free from the shackles of religion and build societies based on rationale thought while stomping out any belief that there may be more to life than random existence and eternal death.
Ummmmm. Let's try another way. Let people live in a utopia where:
* They can think/believe what they want as long as the actions from those thoughts/beliefs do not harm others.
* They are free from the shackles imposed by ancient superstitions.
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