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Old 05-05-2011, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,463 posts, read 3,861,756 times
Reputation: 2629

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsoncole View Post
However, tithing is not a Christian requirement
This is what was debatable. At no point does the New Testament say that tithing ended, nor does it say that it continued. What does it say about tithing? Absolutely nothing. All the rest I said is indeed grabbing at thin air because there is no mention of it in the NT. This means that nobody knows with any certainty and it's a matter of best guesses.

Quote:
and is not practiced by Jehovah's Witnesses.
Obviously. Not debating that point.

Quote:
What in the world are you talking about? You asked about tithing - I answered you and now you go on and on about what not!
Well, it works for us, so we don’t need the tithe.
You seem unable to keep track of your own thoughts. We don’t operate by our own desires. Being Christian means to do as Jesus commanded. I told you - how many times must I say it?
A fine series of comments that are completely typical of any Jehovah's Witness I've ever discussed religion with: Obnoxious, insulting, condescending and rude. I've always wondered if that was part of JW doctrine because I've yet to find any exceptions. Why can I never find a nice calm well thought out discussion on religion with a JW? It's just weird that way. I have nothing against you and I've defended the JW religion on more than one occasion when people were saying blatantly false things. But you're welcome to view me as your enemy if that makes you feel better.

Quote:
Supported? What do you mean? Food, clothing, shelter and a few pennies for bus fare is ALL they get!
I'm sure that's what your told and that you believe it because they said so. I have no evidence to the contrary so perhaps what you say is true. But the underlying thing is that giving anything at all to your church's leadership, then you are paying them. If they get nothing whatsoever then your grand claims that absolutely nobody gets paid would be accurate. Anyone getting anything at all means they are paid.

Quote:
Who’s talking about an unpaid “church leadership” or CLERGY? There is no clergy class among Jehovah’s Witnesses!
You're nitpicking about words. Clergy is the general term for church leadership in any given religion. You can say that it is not a clergy and that's fine and well, but unless there your religion is completely disorganized and leader-less at all levels, then it has a body that fits the definition of "clergy." But fine, we'll use your preferred words if it makes you happy.

Quote:
And no collection is ever taken!
Amazing! This means that all these voluntary contributions are automagically teleported from your wallet or bank account your church. Very impressive.

Now if you mean that no collection plate gets passed around during services, then the JW's are certainly not unique in this matter either. But if you mean that nothing whatsoever is done to collect any money - then that would either mean magic and teleportation as I already said or that nobody contributes anything ever because they have no means of doing so - since nobody actually collects contributions.

Quote:
Yes - we are unique!
In terms of non-paid leadership, no you aren't. But it's that nature of any religion that claims to be the only true church insist that you are unique. As I've already said, the LDS are a clear duplicate of everything you're insisting that makes JW's unique. So are Amish and Mennonites and Waldesians. You're unpaid leadership might function differently than these other examples, but at the end of the day, they're all unpaid.
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:43 AM
 
Location: 95468
1,383 posts, read 2,065,417 times
Reputation: 937
Default This post needs work

It's a long story about how and why our family has been going to JW church meetings.
I'm a doubting agnostic at best. My 3 boys are non believers. My wife was raised Cathaloc.
We knew a JW lady in a previous town then lost track of her when we moved 200 miles up north.
Then about a year later who shows up at our door? Our JW friend! Totally at random. They had moved to the same town and were going door to door as is theri habit.
The first thing I want to say about the group is that the women are unusually attractive. The plain Jane, no make up, long dresses, comfortable shoes and a bee hive hairdo stereotype is as they say 'outmoded'. One aspect of these services I enjoy that seperates the JWs from other Christian groups is that members are not made to stand for long periods of time. I remember almost blacking out at other services. They don't pass a donation plate or sing especially well. Naturally they speak often and highly of Jehova. But much less than other Christian churches do. The services themselves are more like a Bible study. They have different speakers on various topics from the practical to the spirital with member particapation.
Even though we're not, let's say, likely converts It's good to get the family out and focused on other things. These are very nice and thoughtful people. I'm sure we'll be coming back soon.
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Texas
32,562 posts, read 17,664,412 times
Reputation: 18676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie Jo View Post
When I was a JW I lived in fear of Armageddon. This was not a fear that I spoke up about. It was supposed to have come about in 1975. What helped me was when I found in their books in their library that they had other past dates that they hoped I would never see. I imagine that they no longer keep old books. After 1975 came and went I never paid attention to another prediction of the end from anyone. How many JWs live in this fear? Hard to say because it would be wrong to speak out about it. It would show that you lacked faith and could get you into trouble.

Thank you for confirming my observations.

And congratulations for not succumbing to irrational fear.

Quote:
The way in which JWs are afraid of each other is this: You have to be careful of what you say to them because if you have doubts, they will get reported to the Elders. You could get kicked out. JWs are like the spys in communist China of the 50s when they told on their parents, friends, children, etc. In China it was required that you speak out just as it is with the JWs. And speaking out can get you tossed out, whereas in China you will end up in prison where they are trying to reform you. You have to walk the party line as a JW.

I notice here that the JWs on this thread never say anything about what those who have been disfellowshipped have said, and I realize this is because they don't believe us. As a JW I was taught that those that leave are liars; they cannot be trusted to tell you the truth. I remember telling a friend of mine that was thinking of going back to the JWs (she had never been baptized) that those that have been kicked out suffer greatly, and that she should read a certain exJW website. She called me a liar. We haven't spoken since since she blocked my phone calls to her.
Your honesty is refreshing.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:12 AM
 
25,084 posts, read 13,917,488 times
Reputation: 41737
I wish they would not ring my doorbell... If they must just leave the little magazine in the mailbox.
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Old 05-05-2011, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,463 posts, read 3,861,756 times
Reputation: 2629
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertjohnson View Post
It's a long story about how and why our family has been going to JW church meetings.
I'm a doubting agnostic at best. My 3 boys are non believers. My wife was raised Cathaloc.
We knew a JW lady in a previous town then lost track of her when we moved 200 miles up north.
Then about a year later who shows up at our door? Our JW friend! Totally at random. They had moved to the same town and were going door to door as is theri habit.
The first thing I want to say about the group is that the women are unusually attractive. The plain Jane, no make up, long dresses, comfortable shoes and a bee hive hairdo stereotype is as they say 'outmoded'. One aspect of these services I enjoy that seperates the JWs from other Christian groups is that members are not made to stand for long periods of time. I remember almost blacking out at other services. They don't pass a donation plate or sing especially well. Naturally they speak often and highly of Jehova. But much less than other Christian churches do. The services themselves are more like a Bible study. They have different speakers on various topics from the practical to the spirital with member particapation.
Even though we're not, let's say, likely converts It's good to get the family out and focused on other things. These are very nice and thoughtful people. I'm sure we'll be coming back soon.
Good comment and pretty accurate. They are good people and people get blinded to that fact somehow. While I have my many disagreements with a number of their doctrines, at the core they are good and teach people to live good lives and that's a very good thing.

I think I tend to get into theological arguments with them because I've studied religion quite a bit and comparative religion is something of a passion for me. I've read a good amount of their materials and history and it's quite interesting, but for me it also raises a lot of questions that I've never gotten satisfactory answers to. But at the end of the day, JW's are some of the most Christian people you'll ever meet in their day to day lives. The best measure for the usefulness of any given religion: How successful are they at making bad people good and good people better?

By the way, standing for long periods of time is a rarity outside of Catholicism. Almost all Protestant/New religions don't do anything like that in Sunday services.
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:51 PM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,232,873 times
Reputation: 12496
I thought I'd put out some facts as someone who has studied with the JW's for 2 years but isn't JW themselves. I've been on the inside without having the bias of the inside, so I can be more neutral about what goes on in the Organization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Clergy is the general term for church leadership in any given religion. You can say that it is not a clergy and that's fine and well, but unless there your religion is completely disorganized and leader-less at all levels, then it has a body that fits the definition of "clergy." But fine, we'll use your preferred words if it makes you happy.
JW's definitely have a clergy. They're just not salaried, which is the difference between JW's and a lot of other sects, and which I do find commendable. I don't know which sects salary their clergy and which don't, but wouldn't be at all surprised if JW's weren't the only sect that doesn't salary their clergy. All that said, there very much is a hierarchy, with ministerial servants, district overseers, circuit overseers, elders, and the Governing Body. They can disfellowship people and decide on assembly places and so on and so forth, and give more talks at the Kingdom Hall. The circuit overseer visits every Kingdom Hall in their region twice a year.

Quote:
Now if you mean that no collection plate gets passed around during services, then the JW's are certainly not unique in this matter either. But if you mean that nothing whatsoever is done to collect any money - then that would either mean magic and teleportation as I already said or that nobody contributes anything ever because they have no means of doing so - since nobody actually collects contributions.
There are donation boxes. There is one for supporting the printing and distributing of Watchtower materials, one for building Kingdom Halls, and one for paying the local Kingdom Hall bills. The building materials fund is used in emergencies for disaster relief. The disaster relief many JW's participate in is very impressive too IMO, and JW's are have been characteristically the first on the scene in disasters like Haiti and Katrina (but rarely get mentioned on the news, if ever). But to say they don't collect money at all would be a lie. That said, bragging about donations is looked down upon as well, so the intent for true donation is preserved at least somewhat. But there is definitely a generalized pressure to donate, even though individuals aren't put on the spot.
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Old 05-06-2011, 05:49 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,248,421 times
Reputation: 6657
I guess I'd say I have mixed views of them.

I like the way they stood up against Nazism and that they aided religious freedom in the US in areas like refusing military service or the Pledge of Allegiance. Also an ex-JW I knew said they really do help each other when things are rough.

I don't much care for what I know of their theology and it seems a bit dour the way they have like no holidays at all plus sometimes bash those who do celebrate say Christmas. Also I understand the "no blood transfusion" thing, but I think it's a bit dumb. Transfusion isn't really "eating blood" in any normal sense. On that it would seem like Jehovah's Witnesses would be forbidden from eating steak rare, as they are prohibited from eating blood, but I don't know if that's the case. Is it?
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:36 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,232,873 times
Reputation: 12496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I guess I'd say I have mixed views of them.

I like the way they stood up against Nazism and that they aided religious freedom in the US in areas like refusing military service or the Pledge of Allegiance. Also an ex-JW I knew said they really do help each other when things are rough.

I don't much care for what I know of their theology and it seems a bit dour the way they have like no holidays at all plus sometimes bash those who do celebrate say Christmas. Also I understand the "no blood transfusion" thing, but I think it's a bit dumb. Transfusion isn't really "eating blood" in any normal sense. On that it would seem like Jehovah's Witnesses would be forbidden from eating steak rare, as they are prohibited from eating blood, but I don't know if that's the case. Is it?
Yes, they are forbidden from eating blood. Rare steak doesn't have blood. The pinkishness is the meat, not the blood. Meat is typically drained of blood before being prepared for eating, so JW's can eat meat. However, when it's not, such as in the case of kielbasa (Polish sausage), then they can't eat that.

They can't accept blood transfusions for the same reason. However they are participating heavily in helping doctors revolutionize surgery with blood circulation technology in order to eliminate the need for blood transfusions. There are also other medical benefits like a decrease in risk for infection and no time delay for waiting for blood etc.
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:40 AM
 
Location: USA - midwest
5,945 posts, read 4,715,720 times
Reputation: 2606
Lightbulb what do you think of Jehovah Witnesses?

They're like a fringe cult.
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Old 05-09-2011, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,319,539 times
Reputation: 7232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regs4rl View Post
my cousins are JWs and they asked me to start going to their congregation with them. i would feel bad if i said no so i went ahead and told them i would go. i'm moving in 3 months anyway so what the heck. i personally don't believe in anything that their religion teaches nor am i even religious. i just figured i would humor them the last few months i'm here. so my questions: what do you think of JWs? and has anyone else done something similar to what i am doing just to please family or friends?
JW's are in general, very nice people. Why would you want to go to their services if your not going to seriously listen to anything they teach? Sounds to me like your wasting your time and theirs
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