U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-11-2011, 10:35 AM
 
646 posts, read 529,113 times
Reputation: 46

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
This is what was debatable. At no point does the New Testament say that tithing ended, nor does it say that it continued. What does it say about tithing? Absolutely nothing. All the rest I said is indeed grabbing at thin air because there is no mention of it in the NT. This means that nobody knows with any certainty and it's a matter of best guesses.
A keen student of the Bible can tell if and when tithing ended without it being specifically mentioned.
What was the purpose of the tithe?
In the expansion of the Law given at Mount Sinai, tithing taxes on the land, the fruit trees, and the herds and flocks, were taken for the support of the Levites, since they had no common inheritance in the land with the other tribes. (Lev. 27:30-33; Num. 18:21-32)
The Levitical priesthood ended in 70 C.E. with the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem by the Romans. There was, therefore, no longer any need for the tithe.

"Search as you may you will not find Jesus recommending or commending tithing for his followers. When Jesus sent out his apostles and disciples to do missionary work from house to house and city to city, even unto the ends of the world, he made no provisions for their support through tithing. (Matt. 10:1-42; 28:19, 20; Luke 9:1-10; 10:1-17; Acts 1:8) Jesus came to fulfill and put an end to the Law covenant and all of its ordinances by having it nailed to his torture stake, and at the same time his poured-out blood set in operation a new covenant with superior arrangements. (Col. 2:14-16) Under such new system Christians are under new commandments that are summed up in total or complete love. They must therefore consecrate, not a tenth part, but everything they possess to God’s service and for the aid and comfort of good-will strangers among them.—Matt. 22:36-40." (WT 51 4/15 pp. 248-249)
Quote:
I'm sure that's what your told and that you believe it because they said so. I have no evidence to the contrary so perhaps what you say is true. But the underlying thing is that giving anything at all to your church's leadership, then you are paying them. If they get nothing whatsoever then your grand claims that absolutely nobody gets paid would be accurate. Anyone getting anything at all means they are paid.
Your words here seems to be confined to getting paid.
You are mistaken and you didn't read carefully!
This is what I wrote:
"No one gets paid a salary and no collection is ever taken. The work is operated entirely on voluntary contributions. Over the years it has proven to be quite adequate.
Show me another organization like this."
Do you really think that pittance constitutes a salary? What are they supposed to report on their 1040 form?
I say "Prove your charge!" Do you have evidence that anyone gets a salary? No evidence, no case!
Quote:
You're nitpicking about words. Clergy is the general term for church leadership in any given religion. You can say that it is not a clergy and that's fine and well, but unless there your religion is completely disorganized and leader-less at all levels, then it has a body that fits the definition of "clergy." But fine, we'll use your preferred words if it makes you happy.
Who's doing the nitpicking? A "clergy" among true Christians is not according to Jesus' orders:
“But YOU, do not YOU be called 'Rabbi,' for one is YOUR teacher, whereas all YOU are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ. But the greatest one among YOU must be YOUR minister (servant). ” (Matthew 23:8-11)
EVERY one of Jehovah's Witnesses is a minister, according to Jesus' description.
Quote:
Amazing! This means that all these voluntary contributions are automagically teleported from your wallet or bank account your church. Very impressive.
Either you don't know what "collections" are, or you're pretending! No one is asked for a contribution as is praticed in most religions, and no tithing tax is levied.
YouTube - "Pay Tithes or get SHOT!"--Creflo Dollar
Quote:
Now if you mean that no collection plate gets passed around during services, then the JW's are certainly not unique in this matter either. But if you mean that nothing whatsoever is done to collect any money - then that would either mean magic and teleportation as I already said or that nobody contributes anything ever because they have no means of doing so - since nobody actually collects contributions.
Dance around all you want to! I said no one get a salary. That's a fact!
Quote:
In terms of non-paid leadership, no you aren't. But it's that nature of any religion that claims to be the only true church insist that you are unique. As I've already said, the LDS are a clear duplicate of everything you're insisting that makes JW's unique.
Don't try twisting my words. I said nothing about non-paid leadership! But......
Mormons levy the tithing tax even more vigorously than most religions.
With this method in place, why would they have to make collections at their services?
"By this device hundreds of thousands of dollars annually pour into the treasuries of the Adventists and Mormons. Tithing is often the main subject, the theme that is worn threadbare by the Mormons at their annual conferences." (Ibid)
Feast your eyes on the evidence:
tithing and mormons - Google Search
Quote:
So are Amish
They practice tithing!
"Amish practice the law of tithes as well as contribute offerings to care for their own. LDS practice the law of tithing, and additionally practices fast offerings and has instituted other welfare programs."
Not So Usual: Amish: Part 1
Quote:
and Mennonites
They also tithe.
Executive Board confronts funding troubles - The Mennonite
Quote:
and Waldesians.
They tithe, too!
Is Third Tithe Still Valid Today? 3T Tobit
Quote:
You're unpaid leadership might function differently than these other examples, but at the end of the day, they're all unpaid.
As you should clearly see, we are not talking about a paid clergy despite your effort at twisting words.
WE HAVE NO CLERGY!
No salaries here.
Yes - we are unique!

(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<


Wilson
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-11-2011, 10:40 AM
 
6,824 posts, read 4,865,496 times
Reputation: 3724
Jehovah Witness has a highly occultic origin and leaders. I believe many are sadly uninformed and led by wolves in sheep's clothing.


YouTube - Know Your Enemy (Part 73 - Jehovah's Witnesses)

Take this information as that and look more into it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,259 posts, read 20,859,174 times
Reputation: 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
Jehovah Witness has a highly occultic origin and leaders. I believe many are sadly uninformed and led by wolves in sheep's clothing.


YouTube - Know Your Enemy (Part 73 - Jehovah's Witnesses)

Take this information as that and look more into it.
I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, nor am I interested in becoming one. That said, I absolutely detest posts that attempt to "expose" any denomination as "the enemy." Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, they are doing nothing more than slinging mud. If I wanted to learn about Catholicism, why would I ask a Buddhist to explain the religion to me? If I were interested in learning more about Judaism, why on earth would I go to a Muslim with my questions? People who find it necessary to undercut other people's positions to make theirs look good, generally don't have much of a position themselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,373 posts, read 3,849,087 times
Reputation: 2597
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsoncole View Post
As you should clearly see, we are not talking about a paid clergy despite your effort at twisting words.
WE HAVE NO CLERGY!
No salaries here.
Yes - we are unique!

(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<


Wilson
I'm getting a bit tired of saying this but no I'm not trying to twist your words around. No I'm not trying to attack you. I don't believe in the JW faith and doctrine, but I'll defend their honor any day of the week. They are good people and far too much idiocy gets circulated about them that is completely false. On that point, I agree with Katzpur 100%: If you want to know what JW's believe ask a JW -- and I have done exactly that before. And anytime I hear about some terrible thing that the Jehovah's Witnesses did, I don't just take it with a grain of salt, I keep the whole salt shaker handy. Odds are somebody made it up to stir up hate against JW's and this just makes me sick every time I see it happen.

Now as to our friendly little debate here, no you haven't established that there was ever a cessation of tithing as a rule or a law, though I think you're pointed in the right direction: Early Christians appear to have dedicated everything and thereafter held all their property in common. But how that worked exactly is impossible to say. And whether tithing no longer operated at all are completely unclear. Having all possessions shared and in common doesn't function well unless you have a completely self sufficient community with no unbelievers in it and where everyone consents to it. So if a 1st Century Christian did not live close enough to other Christians to have all possessions in common, what then? Was tithing or something like it still in effect in that case? Or was nothing expected of that man? Impossible to say, we simply don't have enough detailed information on the 1st century Christians to go on.

As far as the "we are unique" thing, I can agree with you this far: Of the religions with unpaid religious leadership, yours is one of the few that doesn't tithe. But with over 33,000 Christian denominations out there, I don't think it's possible to say with any confidence that there isn't anybody else following exactly the same model. There probably is. But yours would be the only case of any numerical significance. But I'm not sure how unique that ends up making JW's since you apparently do have a system through which you can contribute money -- just like everyone else:


I'm not really sure why you're so determined that your religion is so very unique and unusual. Why is it so important to you? In the end, who isn't unique and different? And at what point does obsessive non-conformity stop being a good thing and start to be a really bad thing? Just a thought.

I do note that you quoted the Watchtower as a reference in order to make your point. Is that considered authoritative for establishing doctrine for JW's? I've heard that it is, but I'd rather hear how that works from a JW and not somebody else.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Texas
182 posts, read 252,435 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regs4rl View Post
what do you think of JWs? and has anyone else done something similar to what i am doing just to please family or friends?
They are Christian cult originally started by Charles Taze Russell. He was deemed as a false prophet after making two predictions about the coming day of Jesus Christ in which he was wrong both times.

He had ties to Freemasonry (in which at the 32 and 33 degree levels it is revealed to them that they worship Lucifer). Go to his grave which is a pyramid shape tombstone with Masonic symbols.

They will never admit that though. But in actuality, they think that their Watchtower is the only group who can interpret the Bible which is why they rewrote their own Bible calling it in the New World Translation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,259 posts, read 20,859,174 times
Reputation: 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by kallenfranchise View Post
He had ties to Freemasonry (in which at the 32 and 33 degree levels it is revealed to them that they worship Lucifer).
How do you know? Are you a 32nd or 33rd degree Mason? If you aren't, your expertise is highly questionable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,259 posts, read 20,859,174 times
Reputation: 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsoncole View Post
Yes - we are unique!
So's everybody else. No two denominations are alike.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,259 posts, read 20,859,174 times
Reputation: 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsoncole View Post
Mormons levy the tithing tax even more vigorously than most religions.
With this method in place, why would they have to make collections at their services?
"By this device hundreds of thousands of dollars annually pour into the treasuries of the Adventists and Mormons. Tithing is often the main subject, the theme that is worn threadbare by the Mormons at their annual conferences." (Ibid)
Feast your eyes on the evidence:
tithing and mormons - Google Search
They practice tithing!
LDS practice the law of tithing, and additionally practices fast offerings and has instituted other welfare programs."
[/quote]I'll make you a deal, wilson. You be the expert on your religion. I'll be the expert on mine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2011, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,373 posts, read 3,849,087 times
Reputation: 2597
Quote:
Originally Posted by kallenfranchise View Post
He had ties to Freemasonry (in which at the 32 and 33 degree levels it is revealed to them that they worship Lucifer). Go to his grave which is a pyramid shape tombstone with Masonic symbols.
Ah the other "hated cult" Freemasons. Of course almost every single person who signed the Declaration of Independence or took part in writing the Constitution was also a Freemason. So if we buy into what you're saying here, then the United States of America was not founded on Christian principals. It was founded by a bunch of secret Satan worshipers. Which must mean that the USA is ultimately a carefully disguised tool in the hands of Satan.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2011, 05:22 AM
 
646 posts, read 529,113 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post
Jehovah Witness has a highly occultic origin and leaders. I believe many are sadly uninformed and led by wolves in sheep's clothing.
Take this information as that and look more into it.
Since you are so well informed, tell me - what do they teach that is unscriptural?
What do they DO that is unscriptural, illegal, immoral, unethical, or downright ungodly?
Just make sure that you can prove whatever charges you make.


(\__/)
( . )
>(^)<


Wilson
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top