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Old 02-03-2016, 11:17 PM
 
Location: California USA
852 posts, read 572,265 times
Reputation: 259

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is a dismal religion that promotes a miserable life and exalts the OT Jehovah, a most barbaric megalomaniacal and genocidal God fraught with human psychological weaknesses, IMO.
hahaha...No

No Hell

No hatred of people.

Not divided by politics, socioeconomics, race, ethnicity, tribes etc.

Belief in One Almighty God. No confusion with trinities, twinities, divinities

Coexist peacefully with whomever lives next door... gay, straight, Muslim, Jew, Catholic, Buddhist, Shinto, Hindu, Protestant, pagan, etc.

Really not bad considering that our beliefs and behavior, as a group, are based on the Bible inspired by YHWH. The One and the same whom some apparently forget begat, Christ, who perfectly reflected his Father

It's actually liberating being one of JWs. There is no doubt about what happens when we die (no immortal soul) we pass and wait for resurrection. No doubt about what happens to the earth (psst it survives, people who want peace inherit it...the incorrigible wicked on the other hand, well...). People get a second chance when resurrected in the future even those that were "unrighteous." Plus, as our children grow into young adults and take to heart what they learned they choose marriage mates for the long term, avoid unwanted pregnancies, avoid STDs, alcoholism, addictions, etc.

But heck what do I know I'm just part of a dismal religion living a miserable life in Cali, riding my Harley, going door to door spreading something positive, going to a BBQ with my fellow dismal, miserable, fleshly and spiritual family this Sunday after our Sunday meeting (it's going to be about 70 degrees...it's Cali ok don't be a hater). So dismal and miserable.

IMHO
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Old 02-05-2016, 01:29 AM
 
21 posts, read 31,502 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob View Post
While I don't believe in the Christian God or the idea of 'Satan', I'm forced to wonder -- given everything that God has done in punishment, judgment or retribution -- which of the two is the worse.

When you compare apples-to-apples, in many cases, Satan has been -downright benevolent- compared to his Heavenly counterpart. All Satan has ever really done is tempt and corrupt; it was God's decision to kill every living thing via a genocidal planet-wide flood, and it's God's hand that condemns sinners to Hell and damnation for being corrupted.

In fact, as I glance over the Bible here on my shelf, the only time He ever seems to intervene anywhere is to destroy, judge or punish.

Frankly, a being that turns a woman to salt for looking over her shoulder, sends bears to maul -children- for laughing at a man's baldness, and floods and destroys an -an entire world- because it's not up to his standards is one that I feel perfectly justified in judging.
I understand you don't believe in the Christian God, but I think it's important to mention:

1) God had sent his angels to bring the city to ruin, and these angels urged Lot and his family to flee and not to look back. And they did leave the city. Lotís wife, however, apparently couldn't let go of her feelings for her home and disobediently, she looked back. If he was an unloving God, why would he have even tried to save them in the first place? Why not kill them all? They were just one city. He gave them the chance to leave, and the ones who listened did survive.

2) Elisha succeeded to Elijah, was proceeding uphill to Bethel and was mocked by these children. They saw a bald man wearing Elijahís official garment and didn't want any successor of Elijah around. To answer this challenge of his being Elijahís successor and to teach respect for a prophet, Elisha called down evil upon the mob in the name of the God of Elijah. It was a test of his prophetship. Jehovah manifested his approval of Elisha by sending the bears. So it's not because they laughed at his baldness, but because they didn't respect or accept him as the new prophet. I realize it still sounds extreme, but being God's messenger is kind of a big deal...and these were supposed to be God's own people.

3) Not up to his standards? Seriously, there were giants terrorizing people and filling the world with violence. They could do whatever they wanted; who could stop them? They influenced most of the people in the world and the world was filled with badness. It was probably like having a bunch of evil dictators around, I imagine. And they would've lived a LONG time. Methuselah lived 969 years and he wasn't the son of an angel, so imagine how long they could've possibly lived. Again, he warned people. Did they listen? No, they kept doing whatever the heck they wanted. They were influenced by the Nephilim and paid no attention to Noah and his message. That's not just "not up to his standards". That was evil.

Also, he didn't just intervene to destroy, judge, or punish. Examples:
1. Joseph- although God did allow him to go to prison, he also gave him the ability to interpret dreams, taking him out of prison and the Pharoah gave him a very high position. Also saved many people from the famine because of the dream he had interpreted.
2. Job- Satan said no man would be faithful to god if he wasn't being blessed and shown favor. Job proved that wrong, even though he thought it was God doing this to him. In the end he received more than he had lost (although just thinking of the 10 kids he lost is horrifying to say the least)
3. Daniel- faithful servant. Was thrown into lions pit for praying, because some evil men convinced the king that he should be the only one worshipped. God saved his life by closing the lions mouths.
4. Naaman- You might say "well yeah. He intervenes for his own people," but Naaman wasn't an Israelite...he was Syrian. He had leprosy and the Israelite girl told him about gods prophet and what he could do to heal him. He listened and was healed. Again, not one of God's people but he still intervened for him.
There are other examples but I'll leave it there. And as mentioned by someone else, the only reason the badness exists (from my study of the Bible) is Satan's rebellion. Corruption is why we have genocide, drug addiction and overdose, murderers, rapists, etc. Those aren't things God planned for people when he created Adam and Eve. Also, I don't believe in hell either. It is just not logical to me to believe that God uses Satan to torture people. That would mean they're on the same side/team or in cahoots, and clearly that's not true. Gehenna is a place outside of Jerusalem where people threw out garbage and it was burned. Not people, not even animals, but garbage. It was a destruction of the garbage. Gehenna just means total destruction, not torment.

Again, I know you don't believe in these things, but the discussion is about Jehovah's Witnesses, so I think it should be cleared up WHAT we believe and WHY. Sorry it's so long!
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Old 02-06-2016, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,808 posts, read 1,520,968 times
Reputation: 962
To avoid quote-stacking, I'll trim them down to add my counter-points

Quote:
And they did leave the city. Lotís wife, however, apparently couldn't let go of her feelings for her home and disobediently, she looked back.
Okay, I'll agree with that -- if you don't listen, you should expect a smack-down. Fair point.

Quote:
It was a test of his prophetship
Again, fair point. That wasn't really what I meant, though. I just don't get why an all-loving God would attack children. Then again, harming a child is the one thing that's absolutely guaranteed to set me off, so maybe I'm too close on this one...

Quote:
Seriously, there were giants terrorizing people and filling the world with violence. They could do whatever they wanted; who could stop them?
That's precisely what I mean: the world is filled with evil, so God goes all 'scorched-earth' (drowned-earth?), kills every living thing on the surface of the planet, and starts all over again. Which I've pointed out elsewhere comes with its own set of logic issues re: Noah and company, but that's neither here nor there.

As for 'who could stop them'....presumably, God could. I mean...he is supposedly powerful enough to create the entire universe. My objection here is: rather than exerting his godly powers to correct an error, he ravaged an entire planet. That's like...wiping the computer's hard-drive when you find a software bug.

As for your other examples, I was being mildly hyperbolic when I said God does nothing but judge and destroy. It's just that to me, God's default response to a situation that isn't to his liking seems to be 'blow it up'. It really makes it hard to accept that 'God is love' when the most common go-to option is destruction.
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Old 02-06-2016, 01:44 PM
 
Location: minnesota
5,256 posts, read 1,679,690 times
Reputation: 1836
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post

But heck what do I know I'm just part of a dismal religion living a miserable life in Cali, riding my Harley, going door to door spreading something positive, going to a BBQ with my fellow dismal, miserable, fleshly and spiritual family this Sunday after our Sunday meeting (it's going to be about 70 degrees...it's Cali ok don't be a hater). So dismal and miserable.

IMHO
beepbeepbeep engaging Elder mode:
Do you really think you are taking the lead as a Christian man here HD? Are you truly honoring Jehovah with your valuable things if you own a Harley Davidson motorcycle? Are you following the trap of the world with a showy display of one's means of life? How much better could you spend the time you go motorcycle riding to spread the Kingdom message? We are no longer in the last days brother HD, we are in the final seconds of this system of things. Might an honest hearted person miss out on eternal salvation because you are letting the wind blow through what is left of your hair? I sure hope you don't find yourself blood guilty brother HD. Consider the poor widow of Mark 12:41-44 who gave ALL she had. There were no BBQs for her brother HD. You are like the rich in that scripture giving of your excess. While Jehovah certainly does appreciate your efforts the scripture is clear what is truly required of us. Jehovah wants it ALL. Between the kids in college and the HD you are really half arsing it. Perhaps you missed the June 15 2014 Watchtower study (probably out riding your motorcycle). Do you see a Harley Davidson or a BBQ on that path? Here is the link to the study article. You seem to be in need of scrumptious spiritual nourishment. It's mostly trying to talk young people out of college, but there is an encouraging part about older ones who sold all their possessions to serve Jehovah whole heartedly. Are we not refreshed by their fine spiritual example?


https://www.jw.org/en/publications/m...iritual-goals/



Last edited by L8Gr8Apost8; 02-06-2016 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 02-06-2016, 04:12 PM
 
128 posts, read 69,389 times
Reputation: 123
If i'm a not wrong wasn't JW founded by Charles Russell that predicted the end of days in 1914? Wouldn't that basically mean JWs are following the teachings of a false prophet.
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:55 AM
 
Location: US
26,275 posts, read 13,939,623 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by windowtreatments View Post
If i'm a not wrong wasn't JW founded by Charles Russell that predicted the end of days in 1914? Wouldn't that basically mean JWs are following the teachings of a false prophet.
Technically, yes...
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Old 02-07-2016, 08:01 AM
 
Location: US
26,275 posts, read 13,939,623 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Perhaps you missed the June 15 2014 Watchtower study (probably out riding your motorcycle). Do you see a Harley Davidson or a BBQ on that path? Here is the link to the study article. You seem to be in need of scrumptious spiritual nourishment. It's mostly trying to talk young people out of college, but there is an encouraging part about older ones who sold all their possessions to serve Jehovah whole heartedly. Are we not refreshed by their fine spiritual example?
Yea, sheep are so much easier to manipulate when they have no education...
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:24 AM
 
4,066 posts, read 1,457,952 times
Reputation: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by windowtreatments View Post
If i'm a not wrong wasn't JW founded by Charles Russell that predicted the end of days in 1914? Wouldn't that basically mean JWs are following the teachings of a false prophet.



The prophecy of Har-mageddon is a real life true prophecy, made by God--- Mr Russell tried to date a real life prophecy made by God--he did not make up a false prophecy.
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Old 02-07-2016, 03:31 PM
 
Location: US
26,275 posts, read 13,939,623 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
The prophecy of Har-mageddon is a real life true prophecy, made by God--- Mr Russell tried to date a real life prophecy made by God--he did not make up a false prophecy.
Russell was a prophet...He made a prophecy...It failed...What is so hard to understand?...
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Old 02-07-2016, 04:48 PM
 
589 posts, read 229,152 times
Reputation: 36
har mageddon is a ha satan prophecy. "ha ha we diid it to you."
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