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Old 10-18-2016, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Australia
481 posts, read 166,027 times
Reputation: 126

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Truer words were never spoken. The word "cult" is so overused these days as to make it almost meaningless.

"If you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps 'the' religion; and if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect; but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult."
A cult or a sect is the church that you don't go to.
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Australia
481 posts, read 166,027 times
Reputation: 126
Default Find the proof

Thee are many that say that t he JWs do not teach the Bible principles and historic importance, but there is never any debate on any subject that the JWs teach.

Rather than come up with some amusing, and far fetched, anecdote from someone that knows someone that used to know someone that was a JW, how about picking a particular belief of the JWs ( I will tell you if you have it right ) and show from the Bible where it is wrong. Don't give opinions, give scriptures that show that the JWs are completely wrong in the interpretation.
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Old 10-19-2016, 09:59 AM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,148,042 times
Reputation: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marakorpa View Post
Thee are many that say that t he JWs do not teach the Bible principles and historic importance, but there is never any debate on any subject that the JWs teach.

Rather than come up with some amusing, and far fetched, anecdote from someone that knows someone that used to know someone that was a JW, how about picking a particular belief of the JWs ( I will tell you if you have it right ) and show from the Bible where it is wrong. Don't give opinions, give scriptures that show that the JWs are completely wrong in the interpretation.
Huh, let's see. The most obvious one.

Their refusal to celebrate birthdays or holidays, except for the "Remembrance Day". Their "proof text" for this is Luke 22:17-20 ("keep this day in remembrance of me") and assume that since this is the only thing they are to commemorate, it somehow "forbids" them from celebrating holidays and birthdays, even though they admit that
[a]lthough the Bible does not explicitly forbid celebrating birthdays, it does help us to reason on key features of these events and understand God’s view of them. (https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/birthdays/)
The problem is that the Bible does NOT help them "reason on key features of these events and understand God's views on them".

They also mention that nowhere in the Bible is a birthday celebrated. Oh no! It also never mentions riding in a car. Those evil pagan cars! Yet JWs ride in them all the time. At least the Amish take it to the extreme and don't use things not mentioned in the Bible.

And apparently thus, those are God's views on them, even though he never says a single word about them or ever forbids them. It's all because one holiday is commanded to be held - yet never is it said to refrain from celebrating others. How could it? The Old Testament commands the Israelites to celebrate all kinds of holidays - for all eternity. Jesus, as a practicing Jew, observed these very same holidays.


If they hold to the whole "it's a pagan thing", then that's equally foolish (because #1: it's not), for I don't know any JW's that refuse to use the names of the days of the week, or the months - virtually all of them from scary pagan deity names! Oh no, it's Wednesday! Odin's Day! Run away!

So... there's that obvious one. I don't need to give a scripture, as the interpretation of Luke into an outright ban on holidays and birthdays is already bad interpretation.
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,560,010 times
Reputation: 6003
Then there's the prohibition against blood transfusions on the basis that blood has special sacred significance to god and can only be used by the creature in which he put the blood, OR according to ritual blood atonement sacrifices.

The notion of "abstaining from Blood" in Acts 15 was a prohibition against drinking blood as a separate course in a meal, a pagan practice which offended many Jewish believers. No one was performing transfusions at that point in human history.

The obsession with the "clean" and "unclean" is not a Christian emphasis anyway, ritual uncleanness is a pre-Christian Jewish concept.

Then there is the simple and obvious cost / benefits analysis of transfusions. They are clearly life-saving, and giving up your life, orphaning your children, etc. over an asserted uncleanness based on multiple stretched interpretations of a holy book that are rejected even by most other adherents to that book, is not the brightest decision anyone ever made.

I won't even get started on making such terrible decisions for your children.
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Old 10-19-2016, 02:03 PM
 
4,053 posts, read 1,452,829 times
Reputation: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Then there's the prohibition against blood transfusions on the basis that blood has special sacred significance to god and can only be used by the creature in which he put the blood, OR according to ritual blood atonement sacrifices.

The notion of "abstaining from Blood" in Acts 15 was a prohibition against drinking blood as a separate course in a meal, a pagan practice which offended many Jewish believers. No one was performing transfusions at that point in human history.

The obsession with the "clean" and "unclean" is not a Christian emphasis anyway, ritual uncleanness is a pre-Christian Jewish concept.

Then there is the simple and obvious cost / benefits analysis of transfusions. They are clearly life-saving, and giving up your life, orphaning your children, etc. over an asserted uncleanness based on multiple stretched interpretations of a holy book that are rejected even by most other adherents to that book, is not the brightest decision anyone ever made.

I won't even get started on making such terrible decisions for your children.



Yes no one was performing transfusions then, But God knew they would come. The ot teaches-- the soul is in the blood. Not one on earth can prove about blood transfusions either way basically. It shouldn't even be discussed, it cannot be proved by either side. But when one knows the real teachers of Jesus teach something on the matter , they put their trust into those teachers-Luke 10:16--its the same as putting ones trust in Jesus and God at the same time. If one rejects those teachers words and they are true, they are rejecting Jesus and God as well-Luke 10:16)
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Old 10-19-2016, 02:06 PM
 
4,053 posts, read 1,452,829 times
Reputation: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrpuff View Post
really? God assured you that the words written in the Bible are his own? are you 100 percent sure of that? no, you can't be. you can only take man's word that it was inspired by god. sorry. furthermore, the bible has been lost in translation over the years:

Attachment 176139



The world has watched Revelation passing before their eyes for over 100 years--written over 1900 years ago--no mortal man knew unless the words were inspired by God--they were.
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Old 10-19-2016, 02:08 PM
 
4,053 posts, read 1,452,829 times
Reputation: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
REFUSE to believe?

Do you REFUSE to believe that lizard aliens are hiding among us ... or are you simply incapable of believing it apart from evidence to substantiate it?

Do you REFUSE to believe that you will die tomorrow morning at 9 am or do you simply see no valid reason to afford belief to that notion?

Nice attempt to shift the burden of proof onto people outside your belief system.

Try again.



Luke 10:16-- those who reject Jesus' appointed teachers, are as well rejecting Jesus and God--- that is standing in opposition.
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Old 10-19-2016, 02:21 PM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
10,270 posts, read 10,379,895 times
Reputation: 6932
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Yes no one was performing transfusions then, But God knew they would come. The ot teaches-- the soul is in the blood. Not one on earth can prove about blood transfusions either way basically. It shouldn't even be discussed, it cannot be proved by either side. But when one knows the real teachers of Jesus teach something on the matter , they put their trust into those teachers-Luke 10:16--its the same as putting ones trust in Jesus and God at the same time. If one rejects those teachers words and they are true, they are rejecting Jesus and God as well-Luke 10:16)

What?

It cannot be proved by either side? Yes. It absolutely can.
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Old 10-19-2016, 02:37 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,325,866 times
Reputation: 32238
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
It shouldn't even be discussed,............snip
That's some heavy duty censorship you've got going there.
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Old 10-19-2016, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Missouri
661 posts, read 1,029,863 times
Reputation: 303
The JWs are indoctrinated to believe that every single person who leaves, leaves for a selfish or immoral reason.. sex, materialism, laziness, rebelliousness. There can be no good reason for leaving, because its the 'truth' and why would you want to ever leave the 'truth'?

I left because I found out it wasn't the truth. After nearly 40 years, I discovered that the men on the Governing Body lied about and massaged the history of the Jehovah's Witnesses in their Proclaimers book. Among many things they try to portray Judge Rutherford as a jovial, larger than life character, whereas in reality was a cruel, scheming, ambitious womanizer, who smuggled in booze during prohibition and used contributions to buy fancy cars and a big house in California, where, ostensibly, some of the more prominent Bible characters would live after their resurrection, although he frequently used it for himself. The house was an embarrassment and was sold soon after he died.

There are many other things that clearly identify the JWs as not having the 'truth' , too many to list here, and as for their notion of the 'light getting brighter' to explain their ever changing beliefs, such as the 11 changes about the Generation prophecy alone, over the years, how do they know that what they believe now is the truth, as they have clearly believed lies before for many years. Oh sorry, not lies they would say but 'old truth' which is actually untruth or yes, lies, which the Governing body forced followers to believe under threat of expulsion if they questioned or doubted it.

That is very cultlike don't you think ?
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