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Old 10-19-2016, 10:53 PM
 
181 posts, read 77,527 times
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They remind me of Mormons since they are not allowed to dance or drink.
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Old 10-20-2016, 12:52 AM
 
Location: Australia
481 posts, read 166,027 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringwielder View Post
The JWs are indoctrinated to believe that every single person who leaves, leaves for a selfish or immoral reason.. sex, materialism, laziness, rebelliousness. There can be no good reason for leaving, because its the 'truth' and why would you want to ever leave the 'truth'?

I left because I found out it wasn't the truth. After nearly 40 years, I discovered that the men on the Governing Body lied about and massaged the history of the Jehovah's Witnesses in their Proclaimers book. Among many things they try to portray Judge Rutherford as a jovial, larger than life character, whereas in reality was a cruel, scheming, ambitious womanizer, who smuggled in booze during prohibition and used contributions to buy fancy cars and a big house in California, where, ostensibly, some of the more prominent Bible characters would live after their resurrection, although he frequently used it for himself. The house was an embarrassment and was sold soon after he died.

There are many other things that clearly identify the JWs as not having the 'truth' , too many to list here, and as for their notion of the 'light getting brighter' to explain their ever changing beliefs, such as the 11 changes about the Generation prophecy alone, over the years, how do they know that what they believe now is the truth, as they have clearly believed lies before for many years. Oh sorry, not lies they would say but 'old truth' which is actually untruth or yes, lies, which the Governing body forced followers to believe under threat of expulsion if they questioned or doubted it.

That is very cultlike don't you think ?
This is an interesting statement from Ringwielder: Have you looked at the Catholic mind claiming chants and repetitious prayer beads. It is a known fact that this chanting, as seen in Africa and Haiti are used in pagan and satanic rites.

Indoctrination has the connotation of some rite preformed on an individual, or that some form of mental re-arranging is required. This does happen in some religions, the Charismatic religions use the flashing of strobe lights, the beating of heavy base drums and the chanting and unintelligible mouth noises to convince the congregation that they are possessed with Spirit, of course they are, but it is a spirit that comes from a different source that they promote.

Have you looked at Church services where the clergy are "Dressed in fine rainment," and are splashing water in the air, and smoking the congregation like some Australian Aboriginal rite.

Then, have you looked into a Kingdom Hall when the congregation sit and listen to talks on various aspects of God's Word, using only God's Word, the Bible to "Indoctrinate the congregation". There is no force, no fear that if they question what is said that they will be tossed out, nothing like that at all.

It would appear that you have never been a Witness to Jehovah in your life, or you would feel bad about lying against them.

Are you not casting serious suspicions at your own ability to determine what it Truth? I mean it took you 40 years, 40 long years of hearing the lies before it finally dawned on you that the JWs were wrong. Man it only took the disciples and the many thousands of people 3 years in Jesus time to know that they were hearing the Truth. Yes, many dropped out of the truth that Jesus spoke, and then the dark ages set in and false religion flourished for a couple of thousand years. But the truth is back, 8 million people know that they have the truth, and it didn't take them 40 years to confirm their belief.

Which ones to you consider to be the most cultish?

Last edited by Marakorpa; 10-20-2016 at 01:00 AM..
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Old 10-20-2016, 01:19 AM
 
37,496 posts, read 25,232,088 times
Reputation: 5854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marakorpa View Post
Again I say: The Jehovah's Witnesses have never and will never try to contravene God's Given Right of Choice.
So far I have seen no scriptural evidence proving the JWs wrong, there has been a lot of guess work on what is the truth and what is fairy tales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marakorpa View Post
You see, here is sound Scriptural proof form someone who has nothing to give.
The JW's lose all credibility and respect when they stupidly claim that anyone can be celebrating or worshiping something they do NOT INTEND to celebrate or worship. It is a preposterous belief that is born of ancient ignorance and superstition. It is impossible to celebrate or worship anything that you do NOT intend to celebrate or worship. Intent is controlling, period.
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Old 10-20-2016, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,562,897 times
Reputation: 6003
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Not one on earth can prove about blood transfusions either way basically.
What do you mean by "prove about"? That they exist? That they are effective and life-saving? Both are well established from multiple sources.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
It shouldn't even be discussed ...
Why not? Anything of such import very much should be discussed. That you prefer they not be discussed is beside the point, though it is certainly a red flag also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
But when one knows the real teachers of Jesus teach something on the matter , they put their trust into those teachers
What is actually happening is that certain teachers make the CLAIM that they are the "REAL" teachers ... or more precisely each and every group makes that claim. And then sure, some people simply accept that claim; others expect it to be substantiated and supported by something that EARNS their trust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
its the same as putting ones trust in Jesus and God at the same time. If one rejects those teachers words and they are true, they are rejecting Jesus and God as well
So these teachers of yours make themselves equal to god and the scriptures and take on the same claims of infallibility? That exceeds the overt claims of most teachers and is also a red flag.
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Old 10-20-2016, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,562,897 times
Reputation: 6003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marakorpa View Post
Indoctrination has the connotation of some rite preformed on an individual, or that some form of mental re-arranging is required.
No. Although ritual is a tool used more by some than others, indoctrination is teaching people to accept asserted dogma uncritically and without question. That is the core issue. whether or not or in what way you use ritual to that end is merely a question of technique.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marakorpa View Post
Then, have you looked into a Kingdom Hall when the congregation sit and listen to talks on various aspects of God's Word, using only God's Word, the Bible to "Indoctrinate the congregation". There is no force, no fear that if they question what is said that they will be tossed out, nothing like that at all.
That is no different than what most fundamentalist Christians would claim, that they sit around and rationally discuss and debate the meaning of the scriptures and arrive at an intelligent assessment of what they teach and the implications of it. And that everyone is free to come and go.

The fact is that even absent the overt shunning techniques that JWs are well known for despite your denials, there is a nonzero and generally nontrivial psychological and social cost for leaving any insular group once one is invested in it.
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Old 10-20-2016, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,265 posts, read 20,872,370 times
Reputation: 9950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabamarose View Post
They remind me of Mormons since they are not allowed to dance or drink.
Mormons are allowed to dance. Don't know where you got the idea that they're not.
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Old 10-20-2016, 10:44 AM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,148,854 times
Reputation: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marakorpa View Post
I am afraid that if there is no scriptural proof, I cannot answer your false statements of Celebrating Remembrance Day. Not done. No birthdays mentioned in the Bible, what about Herod's birthday feast?

However, in general to give you some sort of an answer: Being a Christian is a full time occupation, it has enough things in it to keep the truth above all other matters. Why fill it with man made and money making holidays that hold more pagan origin than anything to do with Christianity.

You do not understand the "Do this in remembrance of me." scripture, which is not a holy DAY but a commemoration of the establishment of the heavenly Kingdom, and is an even that is partaken by the Faithful and Discreet slave class only once a year on the equivalent date to the Passover, which is not longer a law for Christians.

As far as using the pagan names in the world today, I see no logic in your argument. we use foreign names in our everyday English. Entree, Reservoir, and others from the French, and there are words from other languages spoken in English on an every day basis.

I do not mean to be sarcastic, but it is better to write a factual question than have a guess at something the does not apply, don't you think?

It's not my logic - it's from the JW webpage I listed. You just seem to have not read it, I guess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marakorpa View Post
As far as using the pagan names in the world today, I see no logic in your argument. we use foreign names in our everyday English. Entree, Reservoir, and others from the French, and there are words from other languages spoken in English on an every day basis.

And how are the foreign French words "entree" and "reservoir" proper names such as Matt or Jehovah or Odin?
noun: proper name
  1. a name used for an individual person, place, or organization, spelled with initial capital letters, e.g., Larry, Mexico, and Boston Red Sox.
I'm not sure why you think these are proper names!

Even ignoring that incredible misunderstanding of what is and isn't a "proper name", - "foreign" does not mean "pagan".

"Foreign", as an adjective
adjective: foreign
1.
of, from, in, or characteristic of a country or language other than one's own.
"a foreign language"
synonyms:overseas, exotic, distant, external, alien, nonnative "foreign branches of American banks"


is not even close to "pagan", as an adjective
noun
noun: pagan; plural noun: pagans
  1. 1.
    a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions.
    synonyms:heathen, infidel, idolater, idolatress; archaicpaynim
    "pagans worshiped the sun"
    • datedderogatory
      a non-Christian.
    • an adherent of neopaganism.




adjective
adjective: pagan
1.
relating to pagans.
"a pagan god"
synonyms:heathen, ungodly, irreligious, infidel, idolatrous "the pagan festival"


Why would you even imply that using the FOREIGN French word "entree" is equivalent to naming a day of the week after a PAGAN god - Odin? "Foreign" does not equal "pagan".

Why are "pagan roots" important to the JWs?
The JW site lists as the primary reason to not celebrate birthdays their pagan roots:
  1. Birthday celebrations have pagan roots. According to Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend, these celebrations originated from the belief that on a person’s birthday, “evil spirits and influences have the opportunity to attack the celebrants” and that “the presence of friends and the expression of good wishes help to protect the celebrant.” The book The Lore of Birthdays says that in ancient times, birthday records were “essential for the casting of a horoscope” based on “the mystic science of astrology.” This book adds that “birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes.”
    The Bible, however, condemns the use of magic, divination, spiritism, or “anything like this.” (Deuteronomy 18:14; Galatians 5:19-21) In fact, one reason why God condemned the ancient city of Babylon was that its inhabitants practiced astrology, which is a form of divination. (Isaiah 47:11-15) Jehovah’s Witnesses are not preoccupied with the roots of every custom; yet when the Scriptures give such pointed indications, we do not ignore them. (https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/birthdays/)
SO, my logic is fine. If the JWs have a problem with anything with "pagan roots", then they should have a problem with the months and weeks that have "pagan roots" and are clearly named after them, along with many holidays for the same reason. Even the Jewish months used in the Bible are named after "pagan deities". I sure hope you don't drive a Mazda, because it's named after a Zoroastrian deity! YIKES!

But then again, when have the JWs ever been consistent in their own logic? I mean, you couldn't even tell the difference between a foreign word and a proper name, so how could you possibly apply sound logic to anything? I don't mean to be sarcastic (as you said), but perhaps you'd better hit the books a little more before trying to say inane things on subjects that you yourself have not grasped. Ask an Elder if you need help.
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Old 10-20-2016, 10:50 AM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,148,854 times
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And if you want actual scriptural proof of improper JW doctrine, it is the fact that not a single Greek New Testament manuscript has the Divine Name YHWH in it. They all have Kyrios ("Lord"). Yet the JW translation of the New Testament replaces Kyrios with Jehovah. Why? One of their reasons is because it looks "inconsistent" with the OT! Well, that's because it is.... that's no reason to produce a translation that is a lie.

They can try to justify it all they want (I've heard it all), but they are clearly mistranslating what the actual New Testament text says - that's a fact. In fact, their translation has been a laughing stock for decades for this very reason.
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Old 10-20-2016, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Gold Country, California. A little over an hour from Reno
25 posts, read 10,650 times
Reputation: 43
jehova's witness practice ex-communication. They are not consistent with this. They accept drunks, despite the bible calling it a sin. Yet will ex communicate a person for smoking. This person is not even allowed to sit by his family if he so chooses to want to be accepted back into the church.

They break up famiies grooming children for parental alienation. This is my personal experience, I witnessed it when in the church.

A very dangerous cult. Beware

Similar to the Seventh Day Adventists, they view Jesus Christ as ALSO an angel named Michael. Crazy stuff.
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Old 10-20-2016, 01:25 PM
 
4,053 posts, read 1,452,829 times
Reputation: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabamarose View Post
They remind me of Mormons since they are not allowed to dance or drink.



Jw,s can dance and drink. Gods word forbids drunkenness, but as well teaches--a little wine is good for the stomach.
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