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Old 10-22-2016, 02:16 PM
 
4,093 posts, read 1,466,502 times
Reputation: 272

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Ah, but you see, I am taking it up with YOU. Don't run away; it doesn't look good.

If god gave us minds and expects us to use them, then there should be no conflict at all between his commands / edicts / principles and observable reality, logic and reason.

If god grants humans the grace to "think his thoughts after him" and invent blood transfusions or cell phones or computer networks or self-driving automobiles ... what basis is there to cherry pick to benefit from some of god's grace but not all of it? On what basis do you judge blood transfusions a snare and a sin, and electric lights a blessing of god?

These are simple questions that should be answerable without resorting to your (interpretation of) your holy book. If not -- if you must resort to quotemined scripture or the pronouncements of your accepted teachers -- with the ultimate cop-out being, well, god says so, take it up with him -- then what basis do you have to expect anyone to accept your reasoning?



Everyone with a brain knows its Gods will that matters in all thing one does. God commanded against blood from early on. All blood was poured out on the ground, never to be eaten( taken inside ones self)
Those that actually have faith in God, know they will be resurrected if they die in this system of things. into Gods kingdom. Especially those who died, standing up for his righteous decrees.
All that are in a good standing with God, know who the teachers are that Jesus appointed and they do this no matter what= Luke 10:16-- even if they are in error on a matter, a domestic never knows a truth before Jesus' appointed teachers know.
The ot teaches--the soul is in the blood--so are you receiving anothers soul in a blood transfusion?
God is always correct.
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Old 10-22-2016, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,593,285 times
Reputation: 6007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringwielder View Post
Yes!

"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. ... Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in highschool and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!" Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15
In 1969 I was just embarking on my freshman year in high school, so this is the advice I would have gotten
if I had been a JW. I am now 59 years old, nearly at the END of my career path, and I can only be grateful that I was not told and then believed in 1969 that within 6 to 8 years we would be at the End of Days, if not past it.

These false claims have human consequences and result in ignorance and want of all kinds.
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Old 10-22-2016, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,593,285 times
Reputation: 6007
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Everyone with a brain knows its Gods will that matters in all thing one does.
Many people with perfectly functioning brains don't afford belief to invisible personal interventionist deities in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
God commanded against blood from early on. All blood was poured out on the ground, never to be eaten( taken inside ones self)
Yes and this has nothing to do with transfusion of blood. It was an objection to a pagan dietary practice that observant Jews found offensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Those that actually have faith in God, know they will be resurrected if they die in this system of things. into Gods kingdom. Especially those who died, standing up for his righteous decrees.
Except any claim that there's a decree not to take transfused blood is made up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
All that are in a good standing with God, know who the teachers are that Jesus appointed and they do this no matter what= Luke 10:16-- even if they are in error on a matter, a domestic never knows a truth before Jesus' appointed teachers know.
What is a "domestic"? Is that a term for a JW who is not a teacher? If so, then here again you are elevating an elite group of JWs to a pope-like infallibility on a par with scripture itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
The ot teaches--the soul is in the blood--so are you receiving anothers soul in a blood transfusion?
God is always correct.
The OT teaches that "the life of the flesh is in the blood" (Lev 17:11) which is, as far as it goes, actually an accurate statement. It does not teach that the soul is in the blood or that the soul can be transferred to another via transfusion. That is a superstitious belief worthy of a primitive jungle tribe or cargo cult, but is sub-par even for an adherent to the Abrahamic religions. You might as well believe that being photographed can steal your soul from you.

In any event you have yet to establish the existence of a thing called a "soul" in the first place.
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Old 10-22-2016, 04:03 PM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,157,962 times
Reputation: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post

Yes and this has nothing to do with transfusion of blood. It was an objection to a pagan dietary practice that observant Jews found offensive.

Except any claim that there's a decree not to take transfused blood is made up.


The OT teaches that "the life of the flesh is in the blood" (Lev 17:11) which is, as far as it goes, actually an accurate statement. It does not teach that the soul is in the blood or that the soul can be transferred to another via transfusion. That is a superstitious belief worthy of a primitive jungle tribe or cargo cult, but is sub-par even for an adherent to the Abrahamic religions. You might as well believe that being photographed can steal your soul from you.

In any event you have yet to establish the existence of a thing called a "soul" in the first place.

This is all correct.

The original prohibition was against eating an animal that was still living (which still had blood flowing through it), thus the Noahide Commandment that allows the eating of animal flesh but NOT of living animal flesh - probably a "pagan dietary practice" as you pointed out. The Hebrew term nephesh (נֶפֶש nep̄eš) is best translated as "life-force" or even simply "life" in some cases, not as the traditional "soul" which gives a misleading picture of what the nephesh was. For the various intricacies of the term, see here.

Thus:
All things crawling about that live, for you shall they be, for eating,
as with the green plants, I now give you all.

However: flesh with its life (נֶפֶש nep̄eš), its blood, you are not to eat!
(Genesis 9:3-4 SB Fox)
The importance of blood as a natural (as opposed to spiritual) component of the "life-force" is further hammered home in the next verses:
However, too: for your blood, of your own lives (נֶפֶש nep̄eš), I will demand satisfaction -
from all wild-animals I will demand it,
and from humankind, from every man regarding his brother,
demand-satisfaction for human life.
Whoever now sheds human blood,
for that human shall his blood be shed,
for in God's image he made humankind.
(Genesis 9:5-6)
As you say, Mordant: "the flesh is in the blood" is a natural, biological statement.

Notice how KJW uses deceptive language to confuse the matter:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
God commanded against blood from early on.
Using a generalized statement, and not specifying that the "commandment" was against the consumption of living animals and their blood allows the JWs to expand the prohibition and apply it to other things it was never intended for. "Hey, guys, God commanded against blood from early on. So, you know... you can't even serve goat's milk flavored with blood, or get transfusions".
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
All blood was poured out on the ground, never to be eaten( taken inside ones self).
Again, misleading non-specific language "taken inside ones self" easily leads to an argument against transfusion. But we all see the language games going on here. The Hebrew terms used are for the normally accepted process of physically eating something in order to digest it.

Transfusion involves neither physical eating or physical digestion via the stomach. Only word games and a basic ignorance of how both language in general works, and the Biblical Hebrew language works specifically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
The ot teaches--the soul is in the blood--so are you receiving anothers soul in a blood transfusion?
No, it clearly doesn't. It teaches that life cannot exist without blood. See Mordan'ts comments and my brief excursus on the nephesh above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
God is always correct.
Maybe so, but it helps if you're able to properly read the book he supposedly wrote for you. It's becoming increasingly clear that some people cannot.

Language games!
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Old 10-22-2016, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Australia
481 posts, read 167,287 times
Reputation: 126
My original question is not redundant as far as I am concerned. It goes to rest unanswered, as I knew it would.
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Old 10-22-2016, 07:57 PM
Status: "Phlegmatic." (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,476 posts, read 12,137,514 times
Reputation: 10689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marakorpa View Post
My original question is not redundant as far as I am concerned. It goes to rest unanswered, as I knew it would.
Gee, I guess that makes you a prophet.

Maybe you can take over when one of the seven, old, New York Watchtower dudes keels over and donates his molecules back to the universe.

So, when's the Apocalypse, ya' think?

Add your guess to the failures of the previous JW "prophets."
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Old 10-22-2016, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,292 posts, read 20,939,978 times
Reputation: 9979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringwielder View Post
Yes!

"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. ... Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in highschool and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!" Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15
OMG! That is positively shocking!
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Old 10-22-2016, 09:26 PM
Status: "Phlegmatic." (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,476 posts, read 12,137,514 times
Reputation: 10689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
OMG! That is positively shocking!
Only because you were unaware how long they've been pulling this BS.

And they still find sheep to corral.

I guess that's why they value ignorance over education. Stupid sheep are easier to manipulate.
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Old 10-22-2016, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Australia
481 posts, read 167,287 times
Reputation: 126
Just to reiterate the belief that the Jws are the only ones that has the Truth, it is not creating a precedent as far as Bible history is concerned. To start with, there can only be one truth, there cannot be part truths, or little lies as against big lies, so it stands that only one of the many, many concepts of religion, only one has the Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. You can make your own choice, But do not blame anyone else if you make the wrong choice.

In Noah's time it has been calculated that an average of 10 billion people were on the earth, with an extended possibility of 17 billion. Only eight humans survived. (Secular reference). Think about it!!!!!
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Old 10-22-2016, 09:53 PM
Status: "Phlegmatic." (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,476 posts, read 12,137,514 times
Reputation: 10689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marakorpa View Post
Just to reiterate the belief that the Jws are the only ones that has the Truth, it is not creating a precedent as far as Bible history is concerned. To start with, there can only be one truth, there cannot be part truths, or little lies as against big lies, so it stands that only one of the many, many concepts of religion, only one has the Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. You can make your own choice, But do not blame anyone else if you make the wrong choice.

In Noah's time it has been calculated that an average of 10 billion people were on the earth, with an extended possibility of 17 billion. Only eight humans survived. (Secular reference). Think about it!!!!!
What's funny - and sad - is hearing/reading a JW's thoughts and thinking: those poor, deluded souls think they know what's true.
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