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Old 10-23-2016, 10:41 PM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,151,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marakorpa View Post
Garbage!!!!!!
You know what they say.... Denial ain't just a river in Egypt....

...thousands of European Jews can testify that one religious group in Germany underwent persecution equal to that heaped upon the Jews: "Jehovah’s Witnesses"
('Watchtower' May 15, 1975 p. 294).

...a horrible Nazi persecution of 'Jehovah’s Witnesses', worse than that of the Jews'" - (Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God’s Kingdom Rules, pp. 549-550)

The JW mindset was that the Jews were victims, but the JWs were martyrs.

The above is just a small portion - I haven't even bothered to show the illustrations of Jews they use in their publications.


Yet in all this "persecution", "worse than that of the Jews", a mere 2000 JWs were sent to Concentration Camps (according to the JWs yearbook in 1984) and only 894 or so actually died within.

To read more about the habits of the JWs to act anti-socially, visit your local library, study their own literature more closely or go here for a quick and dirty rundown: Jehovah's Witnesses and the Jews. It may not be the best site, but at least it's sourced.
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Old 10-23-2016, 10:42 PM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,151,064 times
Reputation: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Cowardice is also a fundamentalist trait.
Oh yes.

I find it absolutely laughable that this person is engaging others online. Does he not realize what the internet is?
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Old 10-23-2016, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, not Paris. #MAGA.
9,693 posts, read 5,286,166 times
Reputation: 9671
Let's just say that whenever I caught wind of a Jehovah Witness walking up to my door, I'd duck down low on the couch so they couldn't see that I was home They really are nice, but I feel that they are too overbearing all the same. This is unlike, say, the Mormons, who will generally leave you alone if you don't want to chat. Interestingly enough, I have no problem opening my home to Mormon missionaries.
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Old 10-24-2016, 12:57 PM
 
4,066 posts, read 1,456,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
This is all correct.

The original prohibition was against eating an animal that was still living (which still had blood flowing through it), thus the Noahide Commandment that allows the eating of animal flesh but NOT of living animal flesh - probably a "pagan dietary practice" as you pointed out. The Hebrew term nephesh (נֶפֶש nep̄eš) is best translated as "life-force" or even simply "life" in some cases, not as the traditional "soul" which gives a misleading picture of what the nephesh was. For the various intricacies of the term, see here.

Thus:
All things crawling about that live, for you shall they be, for eating,
as with the green plants, I now give you all.

However: flesh with its life (נֶפֶש nep̄eš), its blood, you are not to eat!
(Genesis 9:3-4 SB Fox)
The importance of blood as a natural (as opposed to spiritual) component of the "life-force" is further hammered home in the next verses:
However, too: for your blood, of your own lives (נֶפֶש nep̄eš), I will demand satisfaction -
from all wild-animals I will demand it,
and from humankind, from every man regarding his brother,
demand-satisfaction for human life.
Whoever now sheds human blood,
for that human shall his blood be shed,
for in God's image he made humankind.
(Genesis 9:5-6)
As you say, Mordant: "the flesh is in the blood" is a natural, biological statement.

Notice how KJW uses deceptive language to confuse the matter:
Using a generalized statement, and not specifying that the "commandment" was against the consumption of living animals and their blood allows the JWs to expand the prohibition and apply it to other things it was never intended for. "Hey, guys, God commanded against blood from early on. So, you know... you can't even serve goat's milk flavored with blood, or get transfusions".
Again, misleading non-specific language "taken inside ones self" easily leads to an argument against transfusion. But we all see the language games going on here. The Hebrew terms used are for the normally accepted process of physically eating something in order to digest it.

Transfusion involves neither physical eating or physical digestion via the stomach. Only word games and a basic ignorance of how both language in general works, and the Biblical Hebrew language works specifically.
No, it clearly doesn't. It teaches that life cannot exist without blood. See Mordan'ts comments and my brief excursus on the nephesh above.

Maybe so, but it helps if you're able to properly read the book he supposedly wrote for you. It's becoming increasingly clear that some people cannot.

Language games!



Without learning from the teachers who have Jesus--not a single mortal understands the deep( meat) things in the bible--thus--the mass of confusion called 33,000 different religions claiming to be Christian, yet all claim to have the Holy spirit. Few can understand the milk.
How does one explain the God of the ot= the true living God served by Israel is a single being God? and then turn around teach a non existent trinity and claim to be scholars? And 2 billion are being duped out of everlasting life by them.
So when one knows they have found the teachers Jesus appointed-- they listen without fail, just like they were listening to Jesus and God-Luke 10:16
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Old 10-24-2016, 01:05 PM
 
4,066 posts, read 1,456,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Many people with perfectly functioning brains don't afford belief to invisible personal interventionist deities in the first place.

Yes and this has nothing to do with transfusion of blood. It was an objection to a pagan dietary practice that observant Jews found offensive.

Except any claim that there's a decree not to take transfused blood is made up.

What is a "domestic"? Is that a term for a JW who is not a teacher? If so, then here again you are elevating an elite group of JWs to a pope-like infallibility on a par with scripture itself.

The OT teaches that "the life of the flesh is in the blood" (Lev 17:11) which is, as far as it goes, actually an accurate statement. It does not teach that the soul is in the blood or that the soul can be transferred to another via transfusion. That is a superstitious belief worthy of a primitive jungle tribe or cargo cult, but is sub-par even for an adherent to the Abrahamic religions. You might as well believe that being photographed can steal your soul from you.

In any event you have yet to establish the existence of a thing called a "soul" in the first place.



Soul = breath of life


JW,s don't teach ones soul is transferred in a transfusion--I asked if that is what occurred.
Transfusion didn't come into question in the ot--in the nt it does because it became a reality--God foresaw how far mortals would get before he stepped in.
Lev 17:11-- the soul of the flesh is in the blood.--- one needs seek the true Hebrew translating. there are errors in trinity translating- even in the ot--like--the Hebrew scholars say-- I am that I am = error--I will be what I will be is correct.--trinity scholars teach--Elohim = Gods for the true almighty God--yet the Hebrew translating rule concerning Elohim= never plural when used for the true living God.
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Old 10-24-2016, 01:26 PM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,151,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Without learning from the teachers who have Jesus--not a single mortal understands the deep( meat) things in the bible--thus--the mass of confusion called 33,000 different religions claiming to be Christian, yet all claim to have the Holy spirit. Few can understand the milk.
How does one explain the God of the ot= the true living God served by Israel is a single being God? and then turn around teach a non existent trinity and claim to be scholars? And 2 billion are being duped out of everlasting life by them.
So when one knows they have found the teachers Jesus appointed-- they listen without fail, just like they were listening to Jesus and God-Luke 10:16
And this answers my post how?
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Old 10-24-2016, 01:34 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,351,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marakorpa View Post
I will not converse with apostates...
An avoidance tactic and a handy excuse. A twofer!
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Old 10-24-2016, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,569,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Soul = breath of life


JW,s don't teach ones soul is transferred in a transfusion--I asked if that is what occurred.
Transfusion didn't come into question in the ot--in the nt it does because it became a reality--God foresaw how far mortals would get before he stepped in.
Lev 17:11-- the soul of the flesh is in the blood.--- one needs seek the true Hebrew translating. there are errors in trinity translating- even in the ot--like--the Hebrew scholars say-- I am that I am = error--I will be what I will be is correct.--trinity scholars teach--Elohim = Gods for the true almighty God--yet the Hebrew translating rule concerning Elohim= never plural when used for the true living God.
If for the sake of argument soul = breath of life then I don't see any difference between saying "the life of the flesh is in the blood" and the "breath of life of the flesh is in the blood".

But this is all arguing about theological points anyway. Transfusions are part of the current medical standard-of-care. I search in vain for any historical account of the internal struggle with these notions in the mid 1940s that caused JWs to adopt this prohibition (which they most definitely had the opposite stance on, quite publicly, in the early days). Probably due to the secrecy of the JWs internal governance, we may never known. But I think its main purpose is as a litmus test for orthodoxy and commitment.

I will never forget a conversation I had with a charismatic Christian minister in which he conceded that their belief in the baptism of the holy spirit is based on a questionable translation of a single half verse, in effect, but he then sputtered, "but ... but we wouldn't be CHARISMATICS if we didn't have that interpretation!". And that is just what is happened here; the refusal of blood transfusions had become arguably the best known JW dogma to the public, outside of the JWs itself. It has, for whatever reason, been chosen as one of the main distinguishing characteristics of the sect ... just as speaking in tongues and the seeking of a separate "personal experience" of the holy spirit has become the central defining characteristic of the charismatics. At least the charismatics have their half-verse, and accepting their dogma doesn't generally cost you your life, only your dignity.
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Old 10-24-2016, 03:03 PM
 
37,521 posts, read 25,250,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
An avoidance tactic and a handy excuse. A twofer!
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Missouri
661 posts, read 1,030,356 times
Reputation: 303
They talk about no one challenging them from the Bible. I've asked this question twice now and no answer... show me the Jehovah's Witness reinstatement procedure from the Scriptures and how it reflects the example of the prodigal sons return.

I don't want to know that it 'protects' the congregation, I want you to show me how everything the JWs do is from the Bible and not some construct of the Governing Body.
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