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Old 10-26-2016, 07:19 AM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,148,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
No one eats live animals--they were dead--its against Gods law to take in blood--any way.
Lots of people eat "live animals" - then and now. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_live_animals.

A law code does not prohibit something that nobody is doing. If the Noahide Covenant prohibited the eating of live animals, then that is exactly because people were eating live animals. This fact and the Genesis passage is the entire basis for the Jewish kosher laws - see the above link or consult your local Talmud.

As for "it's against Gods law to take in blood--any way": where is this specified as a law in the Torah? Please do point me to it. Spoiler alert: it doesn't.
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Old 10-26-2016, 07:41 AM
Status: "Bountiful pine needle harvest" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Near Manito
19,273 posts, read 20,151,367 times
Reputation: 13358
One thing I've never understood about JWs is why they proselytize so vigorously when their core belief is that a limited number of people will be saved. You'd think they'd want to keep the competition for paradise as limited as possible.

On the plus side, it's always reassuring to see a few well-dressed older folks walking around the neighborhood on fruitless errands instead of desperate hawkers of home security systems and vinyl siding. In addition, being reminded that I am not the only person with a screw loose is always comforting.
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,560,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
One thing I've never understood about JWs is why they proselytize so vigorously when their core belief is that a limited number of people will be saved. You'd think they'd want to keep the competition for paradise as limited as possible.
Well they modified their original belief that only 144,000 would be converted when their membership became larger than that. Now it's a two-tiered system: 144,000 will make it to heaven with management responsibility but an open ended number of additional ones will remain on a new earth to live under their administration. Problem solved.

Although they have exceeded the 144,000 they still remain small and that is managed not by a strict upper limit on membership but by their strict requirements that even most religion-desiring sheeple will not commit to -- such as no blood transfusions, the pressure to be door to door salespersons, the shunning of immediate family if they don't toe the line, etc.
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:11 AM
 
Location: minnesota
5,253 posts, read 1,674,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
One thing I've never understood about JWs is why they proselytize so vigorously when their core belief is that a limited number of people will be saved. You'd think they'd want to keep the competition for paradise as limited as possible.

On the plus side, it's always reassuring to see a few well-dressed older folks walking around the neighborhood on fruitless errands instead of desperate hawkers of home security systems and vinyl siding. In addition, being reminded that I am not the only person with a screw loose is always comforting.
They believe a limited number of people will reign in heaven with Jesus. The amount that will live on a paradise earth is not limited. So, one of the reasons they proselytize is to add as many people possible to that number. They also believe it is commanded of them to do so.

Another, more personal reason, may be because of cognitive dissonance. Real life disconfirmations abound within the Watchtower. From failed end times to changing doctrins, child molestation and rape, blood factions, UN involvement, 607 BCE, telling people their family members are wicked and will die if they don't fall in line....there is something to bother just about anyone involved with the organization.

Festinger stated that five conditions must be present if someone is to become a more fervent believer after a failure or disconfirmation:

*A belief must be held with deep conviction and it must have some relevance to action, that is, to what the believer does or how he or she behaves.
*The person holding the belief must have committed himself to it; that is, for the sake of his belief, he must have taken some important action that is difficult to undo. In general, the more important such actions are, and the more difficult they are to undo, the greater is the individual's commitment to the belief.
*The belief must be sufficiently specific and sufficiently concerned with the real world so that events may unequivocally refute the belief.
*Such undeniable disconfirmatory evidence must occur and must be recognized by the individual holding the belief.
*The individual believer must have social support. It is unlikely that one isolated believer could withstand the kind of disconfirming evidence that has been specified. If, however, the believer is a member of a group of convinced persons who can support one another, the belief may be maintained and the believers may attempt to proselytize or persuade nonmembers that the belief is correct.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails
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Old 10-26-2016, 01:16 PM
 
4,053 posts, read 1,452,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
Lots of people eat "live animals" - then and now. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_live_animals.

A law code does not prohibit something that nobody is doing. If the Noahide Covenant prohibited the eating of live animals, then that is exactly because people were eating live animals. This fact and the Genesis passage is the entire basis for the Jewish kosher laws - see the above link or consult your local Talmud.

As for "it's against Gods law to take in blood--any way": where is this specified as a law in the Torah? Please do point me to it. Spoiler alert: it doesn't.



In the NT it states-- abstain from blood. Acts 15:20,29--
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Old 10-26-2016, 01:23 PM
 
4,053 posts, read 1,452,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Well they modified their original belief that only 144,000 would be converted when their membership became larger than that. Now it's a two-tiered system: 144,000 will make it to heaven with management responsibility but an open ended number of additional ones will remain on a new earth to live under their administration. Problem solved.

Although they have exceeded the 144,000 they still remain small and that is managed not by a strict upper limit on membership but by their strict requirements that even most religion-desiring sheeple will not commit to -- such as no blood transfusions, the pressure to be door to door salespersons, the shunning of immediate family if they don't toe the line, etc.



Acts 15:20,29-- keep on abstaining from blood


Acts 20:20-- going house to house with the good news of Gods kingdom and of Gods appointed king.
Jesus sent the first 70 out by two--house to house, city to city. Jesus started the work, it does not end until the end-- Matt 24:14


Jesus taught, ones own family members would become their enemies( spiritually)- Matt 10:36


So thank you for showing all the JW teachers listen to Jesus.


Gods word is clear--only 144,000 are bought from the earth--Rev 14:3-- these are the anointed, the little flock( luke 12:32) the bride of Christ--only these are promised heaven.
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Old 10-26-2016, 01:25 PM
 
4,053 posts, read 1,452,829 times
Reputation: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
One thing I've never understood about JWs is why they proselytize so vigorously when their core belief is that a limited number of people will be saved. You'd think they'd want to keep the competition for paradise as limited as possible.

On the plus side, it's always reassuring to see a few well-dressed older folks walking around the neighborhood on fruitless errands instead of desperate hawkers of home security systems and vinyl siding. In addition, being reminded that I am not the only person with a screw loose is always comforting.




Most JW,s do not want to go to heaven, they desire to live on a paradise earth, having families.
Earth is what Jesus promised the great multitude at Matt 5:5-- Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the Earth. The psalmist knew it was true--Psalm 37:9,11,29-- The righteous themselves will possess the earth and reside forever upon it.


So on one hand we have 33,000 religions claiming to be Christian and 32,997 teach--heaven or hell as ones end by throwing Jesus' truth away--- its purely obvious they can all be thrown away as false religions. If they throw Jesus' truth away.
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Old 10-26-2016, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,560,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
So thank you for showing all the JW teachers listen to Jesus.
What I showed is that they have their private interpretation / dogma just like every other group. And just like every other group, they claim they are right and all the others are wrong. The JWs are not at all unique in that regard.

Nor are they unique in claiming to have an objectively sound interpretive system that is unambiguously demonstrable as correct.

JW teachers have no more standing than a televangelist I saw once who paused in mid-sentence while sermonizing, cocked his head, and said, "what's that you said, Jesus? Oh, thanks." and then corrected a statement he had just made and carried on from there. Your teachers claim Jesus talks to them; the televangelist claims Jesus talks to him; and the two would not agree on what Jesus said. Or even on whether the other person was talking to Jesus or an evil spirt.
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Old 10-26-2016, 11:15 PM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,148,042 times
Reputation: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
In the NT it states-- abstain from blood. Acts 15:20,29--
This is advice. James is directly referring to the tradition that arose from the Noahide Covenant in Genesis, and which underwent quite a bit of evolution - especially in the Book of Jubilees.

The phrase "From whatever has been strangled and from blood" seems to indicate that all meat should come from ritually acceptable slaughter practices - as opposed to pagan sources.

Besides the fact that by the time James was speaking, "abstain from blood" could have equally applied to "murder", this is not a law. This is advice from James to Gentiles who are wondering whether they have to convert fully to Judaism before becoming a Christian.

It is not a "law", as you said it was. It is advice.
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Old 10-27-2016, 02:21 PM
 
4,053 posts, read 1,452,829 times
Reputation: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
This is advice. James is directly referring to the tradition that arose from the Noahide Covenant in Genesis, and which underwent quite a bit of evolution - especially in the Book of Jubilees.

The phrase "From whatever has been strangled and from blood" seems to indicate that all meat should come from ritually acceptable slaughter practices - as opposed to pagan sources.

Besides the fact that by the time James was speaking, "abstain from blood" could have equally applied to "murder", this is not a law. This is advice from James to Gentiles who are wondering whether they have to convert fully to Judaism before becoming a Christian.

It is not a "law", as you said it was. It is advice.



Its great advice-- keep on abstaining from blood.
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