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Old 03-09-2010, 04:56 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
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Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
i dont think that anything i say is goin to make you beleive in this system and im not writing all this to try make people beleive because people beleive what they beleive anyway and ive alot of respect towards you and your opinion, i just want to express the sense in this system of life, you see not everyone is good there is alot of evil in the world and this evil is due to ignorance so instead of trowing everyone in hell god will place them into a life that befits there consiossness and this in itself is mercy,just think there is some mad maniac murderer out there, his mind is haunted with evil but then comes the day when he leaves his body,what to do with him?well God might see it fit that this man can no longer occupy a human body, hes too destructive so instead he places him in the body of an animal, a lion lets say, now he can kill all he wants and there will be no disturbances in his mind,there are so many species and all are at different levels of consiossness

"you reap what you sow" karma,but what happens when one sow's so much in one lifetime that not all can be reaped, there are many people that get away with murder and human trafficking and all sorts, sure look at hitler, there is no earthly sentance that could nullify all the wrong doings he commited, but he still needs to learn,he is still a soul but because of his great ignorance and lack of love towards humans he must be punished somehow punished so he can learn.if you let a child go unchecked for years the child can end up spoiled and think he can do whatever he likes and this will be bad for the child because if he acts negative then he'll be reaping negativity.

this system is one of love, God wants us all to come home back to him he remembers our original state of being which is pure bliss and perfect, we have forgoten it but because everyone is on different levels then the process of reincarnation must take place, we fell into the material plane and it is us that have to make it out and it is said that the human form is the gateway to the spiritual world,on the heavenly planets there is too much enjoyment and on the hellish planets there is too much pain but here in the middle planetary system earth there is just the right balance for spiritual cultivation, but i dont think that everyone will go there after this life.

you say we choose good and we choose bad but do them people choose to be born into those miserable conditions no one would choose that so it must be a punishment to some extent but that dosnt mean that we dont show commpassion and help whenever we can for it is in our spiritual nature to do so,but most of the time we are helpless to help certain people but just like any prison sentance someday it will be over and the freedom from that pain will be so uplifting and liberating and there will be something there in their consioussness that tells them to do good and not bad because good karma brings good results and bad brings bad but none of this works without reincarnation because people are on different levels but i think it is good that you are one of those people trying to make the world a better place or at least giving your best so you have my best regards.
It's ok that we don't agree on the reincarnation thing. We do agree on a lot of other stuff though. I can see in your soul that you are a great person.

God's plan was that we come here to experience this life for Him. What we do here affects what our spiritual mansion world will be and our appearance. We are always in a state of progress in spirit. In the material, we can digress but the soul is always progressing. If we were to come back here, our soul would have to digress. It's not the way God planned it. If we can progress our soul in the spirit world through the mansion worlds, why would we need to come back and do the same thing here.

Believe it or not, we do get to choose where we inhabit in this world. We can choose a trouble free life and learn in the spirit world or we can choose a hard life and learn here. Those who learn here are much better off.

I do know, the last I heard, Hitler is in the Celestial Heavens. He didn't need to come back to correct his mistakes. I have that on very good authority although I am not alowed to say who the person is. Celestials don't like to tell all, expecially if we aren't ready.
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
It's ok that we don't agree on the reincarnation thing. We do agree on a lot of other stuff though. I can see in your soul that you are a great person.

God's plan was that we come here to experience this life for Him. What we do here affects what our spiritual mansion world will be and our appearance. We are always in a state of progress in spirit. In the material, we can digress but the soul is always progressing. If we were to come back here, our soul would have to digress. It's not the way God planned it. If we can progress our soul in the spirit world through the mansion worlds, why would we need to come back and do the same thing here.

Believe it or not, we do get to choose where we inhabit in this world. We can choose a trouble free life and learn in the spirit world or we can choose a hard life and learn here. Those who learn here are much better off.

I do know, the last I heard, Hitler is in the Celestial Heavens. He didn't need to come back to correct his mistakes. I have that on very good authority although I am not alowed to say who the person is. Celestials don't like to tell all, expecially if we aren't ready.
thanks for the compliment but i am no great soul, im just a middle aged man with 3 kids longing 4 a descent conversation, hard to get that around here so thank you 4 your posts and although we agree on a lot i still think we disagree on a lot aswell wich is totally fine, you see the problem i have with what you say is this-if everyone automatically enters the spiritual world after this life then whats the point in doing good, we can all be hitlers then,we could roam around doing what we like we could hurt as many people the we like, kill, rape,steal and all sorts of sin and it wouldnt mattter, i think bye your statements that your saying that there is different levels of the eternal existance, and that maybe those who are rightous will get a better life in the spiritual world than those who are not,but even the lowest level on that plain must be amazing compaired to the material plain so who needs to try do any better on this world if we are to obtain the spiritual world straight away after this life.

no.2 i dont think there would be many people who would actually choose a life of misery even if it was better for them still they would want to choose a happy life everyone is looking for happiness after all.

as for hitler living on that plane now ,well maybe he is but maybe he went through a lot of pain first because of the pain he caused and has now learnt,even though it was only a few years ago he still could have lived a billlion lifetimes in other universes and dimensions.
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
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Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
thanks for the compliment but i am no great soul, im just a middle aged man with 3 kids longing 4 a descent conversation, hard to get that around here so thank you 4 your posts and although we agree on a lot i still think we disagree on a lot aswell wich is totally fine, you see the problem i have with what you say is this-if everyone automatically enters the spiritual world after this life then whats the point in doing good, we can all be hitlers then,we could roam around doing what we like we could hurt as many people the we like, kill, rape,steal and all sorts of sin and it wouldnt mattter, i think bye your statements that your saying that there is different levels of the eternal existance, and that maybe those who are rightous will get a better life in the spiritual world than those who are not,but even the lowest level on that plain must be amazing compaired to the material plain so who needs to try do any better on this world if we are to obtain the spiritual world straight away after this life.

no.2 i dont think there would be many people who would actually choose a life of misery even if it was better for them still they would want to choose a happy life everyone is looking for happiness after all.

as for hitler living on that plane now ,well maybe he is but maybe he went through a lot of pain first because of the pain he caused and has now learnt,even though it was only a few years ago he still could have lived a billlion lifetimes in other universes and dimensions.
Well, what we do here does reflect our soul condition in the spirit world. We reap what we sow and if we sow bad seeds (rape, murder, etc) we will have to go through the expediation of getting rid of those negatives. If we sow good seeds, we will not have to go through it but we will still have to acquire the Christ Consciousness. It's all about progress.

In my own experience, I know that my own father went into darkness (hell) upon his entry into the spirit world. I did get a chance to talk with him and he said that because of my forgiveness and the love that I sent to him, he was able to progress out of that darkness. He now understand his relationship with me and that he is now making his way in Divine Love. he never went anywhere besides the spirit world to make up for those errors he caused to me and others. That is only one example. We all have to pay the penalties to the last farthing. Every action has a reaction be it good or bad. It's our own soul that must pay the price. i strive to do good all the time and if I do fall, I know all that I have to do is get back up and keep trying.

It took me a long time to get over my past although there are trust issues I have to deal with. Overall, I'm doing pretty good at reconcilling all that I have done to others and I look forward to a very good spirit life. If I do end up in that darkness, I know I can get out through the power of Love and I won't have to come back here to learn any lessons even if I fail one a million times. All lessons can be learned in spirit.

Read the pages on this link and you will understand why I do not believe in reincarnation. I am in no way implying that you must believe in them nor do I wish to make you change your mind. That is entirely up to you. Reincarnation - True or False?

I guess we're both middle aged in search of conversation.
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Old 03-09-2010, 03:37 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,932,213 times
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Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
Well, what we do here does reflect our soul condition in the spirit world. We reap what we sow and if we sow bad seeds (rape, murder, etc) we will have to go through the expediation of getting rid of those negatives. If we sow good seeds, we will not have to go through it but we will still have to acquire the Christ Consciousness. It's all about progress.

In my own experience, I know that my own father went into darkness (hell) upon his entry into the spirit world. I did get a chance to talk with him and he said that because of my forgiveness and the love that I sent to him, he was able to progress out of that darkness. He now understand his relationship with me and that he is now making his way in Divine Love. he never went anywhere besides the spirit world to make up for those errors he caused to me and others. That is only one example. We all have to pay the penalties to the last farthing. Every action has a reaction be it good or bad. It's our own soul that must pay the price. i strive to do good all the time and if I do fall, I know all that I have to do is get back up and keep trying.

It took me a long time to get over my past although there are trust issues I have to deal with. Overall, I'm doing pretty good at reconcilling all that I have done to others and I look forward to a very good spirit life. If I do end up in that darkness, I know I can get out through the power of Love and I won't have to come back here to learn any lessons even if I fail one a million times. All lessons can be learned in spirit.

Read the pages on this link and you will understand why I do not believe in reincarnation. I am in no way implying that you must believe in them nor do I wish to make you change your mind. That is entirely up to you. Reincarnation - True or False?

I guess we're both middle aged in search of conversation.
hows it goin i read that and to be honest i didnt really think much of it, considering all the veda texts that can verify reincarnation this is nothing, the vedas are the oldest scriptures in the world veda knowledge is a science and the reason why their are hints of reincarnation in the bible is because jesus thought it,the bible has been butcherd andn edited over the years and their is alot of information missing,jesus' teachings were very similar to veda teachings because jesus knew the real truth he travelled to india and there are veda text that mention him, Christ, Krishna its tha same name really,after all Jesus' life from 12 -30 are missing from the bible and emperor constantine and the king of england changed alot of stuff-why?because it was in their interest to destroy the truth,they didnt want people knowing that they are spiritual beings that freedom lies in the renunciation of material things sure these kings were the biggest materialists,

reincarnation is progressive,what you might gain materially on this planet will be taken away at death but what you learn spiritually will never leave you even in the next life you will take that with you until youve learnt all that is to learn,

i just want to ask you a question ,if your talking to all these spirits and their telling you their is no reincarnation,well how are they to know since they havent takin a body yet, they are still in the ghost dimension and may be unaware that they wont be staying there forever,the ghiosts are in an unmanifested stage and will have to leave that dimension aswell but i advise you to look up some vedic knowledge it will interest you and can only add to your experiance the Bhagavad Gita would be the best place to start

Last edited by dobeable; 03-09-2010 at 03:52 PM..
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,134,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
hows it goin i read that and to be honest i didnt really think much of it, considering all the veda texts that can verify reincarnation this is nothing, the vedas are the oldest scriptures in the world veda knowledge is a science and the reason why their are hints of reincarnation in the bible is because jesus thought it,the bible has been butcherd andn edited over the years and their is alot of information missing,jesus' teachings were very similar to veda teachings because jesus knew the real truth he travelled to india and there are veda text that mention him, Christ, Krishna its tha same name really,after all Jesus' life from 12 -30 are missing from the bible and emperor constantine and the king of england changed alot of stuff-why?because it was in their interest to destroy the truth,they didnt want people knowing that they are spiritual beings that freedom lies in the renunciation of material things sure these kings were the biggest materialists,

reincarnation is progressive,what you might gain materially on this planet will be taken away at death but what you learn spiritually will never leave you even in the next life you will take that with you until youve learnt all that is to learn,

i just want to ask you a question ,if your talking to all these spirits and their telling you their is no reincarnation,well how are they to know since they havent takin a body yet, they are still in the ghost dimension and may be unaware that they wont be staying there forever,the ghiosts are in an unmanifested stage and will have to leave that dimension aswell but i advise you to look up some vedic knowledge it will interest you and can only add to your experiance the Bhagavad Gita would be the best place to start
Most of those spirits are in the Celestial Heavens. The highest attainable heaven before God. In those heavens, only truth can be taught. Those spirits have no sin and no inclination to sin. What they say is Truth of the highest form before God. If they say reincarnation is impossible, it's impossible. They cannot lie.
Now, in mediumship, the spirit has to use the mind of the medium. The mediums that are used are required to receive Divine Love so that they can learn of these higher Truths. There may be 1% of the messages that are not correct but the other 99% is correct. The mediums that channel Jesus are very developed in Divine Love and will not channel anything other than what Jesus says so those messages are 100% true.

In the end, it really doesn't matter if reincarnation is true or not. Believing in it does nothing for the soul. It cannot make it progress any faster.

What I like to do is take it to my soul. If it rings true, ok. If not, I leave it alone. I've never believed in reincarnation anyway and when I read those messages, I left them alone because they confirmed what I already knew. By not holding on to that, it left room for me to learn the things that do progress the soul, like Divine Love and Loving each other. My energies are better spent doing just that.

I don't channel. It's not my gift. I feel energies and heal. I have, however, received a couple messages for my own personal growth. Nothing major, just a sentence or two.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,280 posts, read 20,893,921 times
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Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
you say we choose good and we choose bad but do them people choose to be born into those miserable conditions no one would choose that so it must be a punishment to some extent but that dosnt mean that we dont show commpassion and help whenever we can for it is in our spiritual nature to do so,but most of the time we are helpless to help certain people but just like any prison sentance someday it will be over and the freedom from that pain will be so uplifting and liberating and there will be something there in their consioussness that tells them to do good and not bad because good karma brings good results and bad brings bad but none of this works without reincarnation because people are on different levels but i think it is good that you are one of those people trying to make the world a better place or at least giving your best so you have my best regards.
I disagree. As I stated in my first post on this thread, I do not believe in reincarnation, but I do believe we've essentially always existed. When you speak of reincarnation, to me it implies that you could be reborn as another life form (a horse, a centipede, a hamster, a goldfish, etc.) and that a horse, a centipede, a hamster or a goldfish could be reborn as a human being. (Maybe you don't believe that and already said so, but I haven't followed the thread all that closely.) According to my belief (just restating it, as you may have missed it), God created our spirits out of the light and truth that have existed eternally.

To explain further, we existed with Him, in spirit form, prior to coming to earth. When we were born, our spirit entered into a physical human body, giving it life (at least temporarily). When the spirit leaves the body, the body dies but the spirit continues to exist as a cognizant entity. It does not go on to inhabit the body of a horse, centipede, hamster or goldfish. It doesn't even go on to inhabit the body of another person. It is uniquely ours and is not shared by multiple beings. During the time the spirit exists apart from the physical body it once inhabited, the playing field is leveled, so to speak. The cultural, physical, intellectual, emotional, philosophical and political baggage we hauled around with us throughout mortality -- due to the circumstances in which we were born and raised -- will be eliminated and everyone will have the opportunity to see things more clearly than they did during their relatively brief mortality. Eventually, when all have had the opportunity to make choices and decisions that really matter, without the constraints of mortality, our spirits will re-enter our bodies. Our bodies, however, will have been made new and perfect and, because our spirits will never again leave our bodies, we will be made immortal. We will then have the priviledge of progressing forever, learning and growing throughout eternity -- just in one single perfect human body.
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Old 03-11-2010, 04:28 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,932,213 times
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Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
Most of those spirits are in the Celestial Heavens. The highest attainable heaven before God. In those heavens, only truth can be taught. Those spirits have no sin and no inclination to sin. What they say is Truth of the highest form before God. If they say reincarnation is impossible, it's impossible. They cannot lie.
Now, in mediumship, the spirit has to use the mind of the medium. The mediums that are used are required to receive Divine Love so that they can learn of these higher Truths. There may be 1% of the messages that are not correct but the other 99% is correct. The mediums that channel Jesus are very developed in Divine Love and will not channel anything other than what Jesus says so those messages are 100% true.

In the end, it really doesn't matter if reincarnation is true or not. Believing in it does nothing for the soul. It cannot make it progress any faster.

What I like to do is take it to my soul. If it rings true, ok. If not, I leave it alone. I've never believed in reincarnation anyway and when I read those messages, I left them alone because they confirmed what I already knew. By not holding on to that, it left room for me to learn the things that do progress the soul, like Divine Love and Loving each other. My energies are better spent doing just that.

I don't channel. It's not my gift. I feel energies and heal. I have, however, received a couple messages for my own personal growth. Nothing major, just a sentence or two.
i agree with you there, wether or not you beileive in reincarnation wont really help you progress that much it can however keep you on the straight and narrow knowing that if i do really bad stuff then ill deserve it all back,anyway the main focus in the Bhagavad gita is not about reincarnation but it is mentioned.
The Bhagavad Gita was spoken 5000 years ago bye Krsna himself to his freind and devotee Arjuna the conversation takes place on the battlefeild,the battle of Kuruksetra,when Arjuna looses all composier after seeing all his kinsmen and teachers and family on the other side of the battlefeild he does not not want to fight,since their was no alternative than to fight, Krishna imparts the knowledge of Bhagavad Gita and Arjuna must rise and become a self realized soul.
Arjunas decision is motivated bye personaly motivated reasons,Krishna who has agreed to become the driver of Arjunas chariot see's his freind and devotee in illusion,paralized by the fear that he must kill his relatives and freinds,feeling compassion,Krishna eloquently reminds Arjuna of his immediate social duty as a warrior upon whom people are depending,and,more importantly,of his religious duty as an eternal spiritual entity in relationship with God.the relevance and universality of Krishnas teachings transcend the immediate historical setting of Arjunas dilemma.
the dialoge moves thru a series of Q&A that elucidate metaphysical concepts such as the distinction between body and soul,matter and spirit,the principle of non attached actions,the virtues of disciplin and meditation,and the place of knowledge and devotion.Krishna teaches that perfection lies not in the renunciation of the world but rather in disciplined action performed without attachment to results.
Krishna shows Arjuna his universal form,which includes everything in existance,then his mystical four-armed Vishnu form,and finally his original two armed form.He explaines his many manifestations such as Brahman,Paramatma and Bhagavan,and ultimatly reveals that his personal feature supercedes his impersonal aspects.
Krishna explains the 3 modes of material nature-goodness,passion and ignorance showing how an understanding of these 3 qualitys along with knowledge of the devine and demonic natures,can lead to enlightenment.He explaines the different kinds of liberation and the ultimacy of surrending to him with a heart of devotion.

Krishna is the supreme authority their is nothing higher than him this whole material cosmos is mearly a part of his external energys he has many many names and many many forms he is the Supreme Lord,the embodiment of truth,consioussness and joy,he is beginingless,the origin of everything and the cause of all causes and if he says that reincarnation is true than im goin to have to go with him on that so i guess well have to agree to disagree on that one
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Arizona High Desert
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If we are being "punished' for things we did in past lives, I want some concrete dates, street addresses, and facts. I do believe in transitions, but in order to recall everything from past lives, we would need a veryyy large data bank in our heads. It amazes me that our DNA carries so much data in a tiny dot. And that's just the physical part. I am open minded about reincarnation. Most of us do not want to cease. There is always something around the corner, but a miserable life makes it hard to look forward to it. Who knows what's next ? I don't know for sure, but that could be said of the next hour, as well. Just keep breathing.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:13 AM
 
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If we are being "punished' for things we did in past lives, I want some concrete dates, street addresses, and facts. I do believe in transitions, but in order to recall everything from past lives, we would need a veryyy large data bank in our heads. It amazes me that our DNA carries so much data in a tiny dot. And that's just the physical part. I am open minded about reincarnation. Most of us do not want to cease. There is always something around the corner, but a miserable life makes it hard to look forward to it. Who knows what's next ? I don't know for sure, but that could be said of the next hour, as well. Just keep breathing.
it is not us that deals out our karma no-one wants to punish themselves,God remembers everything that ever happened and it is him that controls the whole universe,he deals out our karma wether it be good or bad,he is the supreme controller,it is our free will that will determine what we deserve.
the reason no one wants to cease is because our natural,original state of being is eternal, deep in our consioussness we know weve always existed
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
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Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
it is not us that deals out our karma no-one wants to punish themselves,God remembers everything that ever happened and it is him that controls the whole universe,he deals out our karma wether it be good or bad,he is the supreme controller,it is our free will that will determine what we deserve.
the reason no one wants to cease is because our natural,original state of being is eternal, deep in our consioussness we know weve always existed
It's the "reap what you sow" thing.
We can cease to exist. When we do so many bad things beyond rehabilitation, we can be annihilated. It would be by our own choosing and not God's. He wants us all back but it's is us who must do the choosing.

When a person ends up in hell (darkness) they do so by their own choosing. GOd does not put us there but His Laws. They remain in perfect order and when one fails to love, those laws go into affect. When one walks in Love, the laws are removed because Love is the Law.
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