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Old 03-14-2010, 06:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Hebrews 9:27

And just as each person is destined (TO DIE ONCE) and after that comes judgment,
the body dies many times in this life and the person cant die its only the body that dies-"...the soul is neither born nor dies..."Bhagavad Gita.

and what happens at judgement, do we all go to Hell forever?maybe your quote their is just another missinterpreted contcept that has come from a butcherd bible,just like the eternal hell concept.
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Old 03-15-2010, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
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The material body dies once. After death, it returns to that which it came, to the elements of the world. The soul is created for immortality however, the soul must also choose immortality. If not, then it will return to that which it came, the Creator.

There is only one life here and as I've explained before, it's the Thought Adjustor (spirit self) that sees the past lives of the ones who do not choose immortality. That adjustor sees the past, present and future and through Itself, you see past lives. No one has ever been reincarnated in any form other than that which it has been born into the first time.

Since you are not wavering in your beliefs, it should tell you that it is useless to try to convince others of that belief. This thread is going in circles.
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Old 03-15-2010, 09:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
The material body dies once. After death, it returns to that which it came, to the elements of the world. The soul is created for immortality however, the soul must also choose immortality. If not, then it will return to that which it came, the Creator.

There is only one life here and as I've explained before, it's the Thought Adjustor (spirit self) that sees the past lives of the ones who do not choose immortality. That adjustor sees the past, present and future and through Itself, you see past lives. No one has ever been reincarnated in any form other than that which it has been born into the first time.

Since you are not wavering in your beliefs, it should tell you that it is useless to try to convince others of that belief. This thread is going in circles.
i understand what you beleive in and it does'nt make sense-to say that we came from the spiritual dimension just to be born on the material plane once, then return home straight away-so god is putting people here to become murderers,hes just throwing people in here to see how they get on and it won t really matter what you do because after this life your goin straight back anyway,so this life is like an experiment to see how we get on.

you say that we dont need to learn down here as we can learn everything we need to know on the spiritual plane,if thats the case then theirs no point in this world, everyone would just stay where they were and not risk being degraded or anhialated as you said was possible.

The truth may very well be reincarnation,we have to become pure before we go back home,it is our desires that bound us to this material plane and it is on this plane that we must find a way out, even if it takes us a billion lifetimes,our actions on this plane have effects so we must live out any karma that we create on this plane-its only fair that we do.


jesus said that the wager of sin is death or maybe what he realy said was the wager of sin is repeated death which would make more sense since everybody dies anyway, but those who are pure can go back home to God but those who have not yet find purity must be born again and continue there existance on the temporary plane only to die again and it is this sin that prevents us from being pure-but when we become pure again like our original state and then live to serve God then we will be eligible to go back home.

you said that what would be the point in coming back only to do it all the same stuff-well the awnser to that is simply-you wouldnt do the same stuff, every life will bring a different experience-

if you really beleive that the soul is eternal then its easy to understand reincarnation-after all we did enter this body so its not that hard to think that we can enter another one at death-it is due to our karma what we suffer or enjoy thats why their are so many different levels of enjoyment and suffering taking place right now on the planet.

it would be nice to think that everyone is going back home after this life it really would, all the suffering will be vanquished but the sad truth is is that people are so ignorant that they think they can hurt people and think nothing of it,their is no God,their is no karma i can do what i like and nobody can do anything about it-well they are the worst fools because life sometimes has to teach people the hard way and those who are ignorant simply are not ready for such a blissfull life.

the idea that no matter what you do here you still go to the kingdom of god is a nice one but not a very realistic one,after all you did say you beleive that Hitler is in the celestial worlds but Hitler was an evil demon,do you really think his character would be ready to mix with all them beutiful angels and demigods,You reap what You sow,He couldnt have made that any clearer,He could have said,it dos'nt matter what you sow for you'll reap great rewards anyway,so if you's all become mass murderers it wont really matter because God is waiting for you's anyway.

if you beleive that if you make a mess of this life and it will degrade your place on the heavenly plane then who would take such a risk,after all we are born ignorant and would not be aware of such a change.

reincarnation is a science-,the ultimate goal of life is to break free of reincarnation-to end the cycle of birth and death-it is unatural for the soul to go through such changes since all the soul knows is immortality,but it is due to our sin that we have to come back and experience pleasure and pain,i would love for everyone to go back home straight away but i feel thst such a thought is only wishfull thinking Godhead is the supreme destination of life it is not so easily acheived but it is inevitable for all beings to reach this goal since that is where we came from
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Old 03-15-2010, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
i understand what you beleive in and it does'nt make sense-to say that we came from the spiritual dimension just to be born on the material plane once, then return home straight away-so god is putting people here to become murderers,hes just throwing people in here to see how they get on and it won t really matter what you do because after this life your goin straight back anyway,so this life is like an experiment to see how we get on.
We are here to experience this material life for God. He is not and never has been a material being. He has always been spiritual. He sent us here to enjoy a material life so that He could. It's like sending your own children to the playground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
you say that we dont need to learn down here as we can learn everything we need to know on the spiritual plane,if thats the case then theirs no point in this world, everyone would just stay where they were and not risk being degraded or anhialated as you said was possible.
It isn't essential that we learn this life. We don't need to experience it to progress our souls. God is letting us enjoy this life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
The truth may very well be reincarnation,we have to become pure before we go back home,it is our desires that bound us to this material plane and it is on this plane that we must find a way out, even if it takes us a billion lifetimes,our actions on this plane have effects so we must live out any karma that we create on this plane-its only fair that we do.
We become pure by the act of Love. We can become the perfect person just a s our first parents were before their fall. To become immortal, one would need to acquire the essence and attributes of the Creator. This is only done through Divine Love. In no other way can one become like the Source. We do reap what we sow however, "karma" is always in action. This called the Law of Compensation. This compensation states that we must always, always reap what we sow. Our thoughts and actions determine the colmpensation that takes place here and the spirit world. If the bill has not been paid here, we pay the remaining balance in the spirit world. That is why there are so many mansion world. Each world is fitted for the soul in that particular condition. Once you have paid the penaly, you progress to another mansion world. Those who do not have the substance of the Creator, Divine Love, do not enter the Kingdom of God. They will remain the perfect natural man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
jesus said that the wager of sin is death or maybe what he realy said was the wager of sin is repeated death which would make more sense since everybody dies anyway, but those who are pure can go back home to God but those who have not yet find purity must be born again and continue there existance on the temporary plane only to die again and it is this sin that prevents us from being pure-but when we become pure again like our original state and then live to serve God then we will be eligible to go back home.
No, the wages of sin is death means that one who keeps sinning to inequity, their soul will cease to exists.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
you said that what would be the point in coming back only to do it all the same stuff-well the awnser to that is simply-you wouldnt do the same stuff, every life will bring a different experience-
We can correct our mistakes in the spirit wolrd. It doesn't have to all happen here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
if you really beleive that the soul is eternal then its easy to understand reincarnation-after all we did enter this body so its not that hard to think that we can enter another one at death-it is due to our karma what we suffer or enjoy thats why their are so many different levels of enjoyment and suffering taking place right now on the planet.
The soul was created to be eternal but there will be few who actually make it eternal.
In my own experience, I have already corrected that which I have done in err. I am becoming like the Creator, slowly. I am doing it with Divine Love. I will never need to come back here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
it would be nice to think that everyone is going back home after this life it really would, all the suffering will be vanquished but the sad truth is is that people are so ignorant that they think they can hurt people and think nothing of it,their is no God,their is no karma i can do what i like and nobody can do anything about it-well they are the worst fools because life sometimes has to teach people the hard way and those who are ignorant simply are not ready for such a blissfull life.
Those who are ignorant do not learn and the same lessons keep happening. Once they learn, they will not have the lesson again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
the idea that no matter what you do here you still go to the kingdom of god is a nice one but not a very realistic one,after all you did say you beleive that Hitler is in the celestial worlds but Hitler was an evil demon,do you really think his character would be ready to mix with all them beutiful angels and demigods,You reap what You sow,He couldnt have made that any clearer,He could have said,it dos'nt matter what you sow for you'll reap great rewards anyway,so if you's all become mass murderers it wont really matter because God is waiting for you's anyway.
No. The only way to get to the Kingdom of God is through Divine Love. In no other way can one be admitted. If you do not have the substance, you cannot enter through the narrow gate. Anyone can do harm but they will pay to the last farthing either here or the spirit world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
if you beleive that if you make a mess of this life and it will degrade your place on the heavenly plane then who would take such a risk,after all we are born ignorant and would not be aware of such a change.

reincarnation is a science-,the ultimate goal of life is to break free of reincarnation-to end the cycle of birth and death-it is unatural for the soul to go through such changes since all the soul knows is immortality,but it is due to our sin that we have to come back and experience pleasure and pain,i would love for everyone to go back home straight away but i feel thst such a thought is only wishfull thinking Godhead is the supreme destination of life it is not so easily acheived but it is inevitable for all beings to reach this goal since that is where we came from
False beliefs, doing harmful things to others, killing, controlling and all negatives will land you in places that are not in the Kingdom of God. People do not know what they do to themselves and most people are in darkness when it comes to what God's truths are. Not many people end up very far in the mansion worlds. It takes a very special person to arrive in a higher mansions. Those on the Divine Love path are actually taking the short cut and some Laws of God's will not go into affect. This is because we ask for the substance. It destroys all sin and inclinations to sin. This can be don'e while on earth and there is no need to wait until the spirit world.

Tell you what. When you get to the spirit world, look me up and we'll discover if you can be reincarnated or not.
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:59 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,935,204 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
We are here to experience this material life for God. He is not and never has been a material being. He has always been spiritual. He sent us here to enjoy a material life so that He could. It's like sending your own children to the playground



It isn't essential that we learn this life. We don't need to experience it to progress our souls. God is letting us enjoy this life.



We become pure by the act of Love. We can become the perfect person just a s our first parents were before their fall. To become immortal, one would need to acquire the essence and attributes of the Creator. This is only done through Divine Love. In no other way can one become like the Source. We do reap what we sow however, "karma" is always in action. This called the Law of Compensation. This compensation states that we must always, always reap what we sow. Our thoughts and actions determine the colmpensation that takes place here and the spirit world. If the bill has not been paid here, we pay the remaining balance in the spirit world. That is why there are so many mansion world. Each world is fitted for the soul in that particular condition. Once you have paid the penaly, you progress to another mansion world. Those who do not have the substance of the Creator, Divine Love, do not enter the Kingdom of God. They will remain the perfect natural man.



No, the wages of sin is death means that one who keeps sinning to inequity, their soul will cease to exists.




We can correct our mistakes in the spirit wolrd. It doesn't have to all happen here.



The soul was created to be eternal but there will be few who actually make it eternal.
In my own experience, I have already corrected that which I have done in err. I am becoming like the Creator, slowly. I am doing it with Divine Love. I will never need to come back here.



Those who are ignorant do not learn and the same lessons keep happening. Once they learn, they will not have the lesson again.



No. The only way to get to the Kingdom of God is through Divine Love. In no other way can one be admitted. If you do not have the substance, you cannot enter through the narrow gate. Anyone can do harm but they will pay to the last farthing either here or the spirit world.



False beliefs, doing harmful things to others, killing, controlling and all negatives will land you in places that are not in the Kingdom of God. People do not know what they do to themselves and most people are in darkness when it comes to what God's truths are. Not many people end up very far in the mansion worlds. It takes a very special person to arrive in a higher mansions. Those on the Divine Love path are actually taking the short cut and some Laws of God's will not go into affect. This is because we ask for the substance. It destroys all sin and inclinations to sin. This can be don'e while on earth and there is no need to wait until the spirit world.

Tell you what. When you get to the spirit world, look me up and we'll discover if you can be reincarnated or not.
so God is throwing us into a playground full of murderers, rapists child molesters and so on just for his enjoyment

when we get to the spirit world, which is not the spiritual world,the spirit world is where the ghost live but the spiritual world is the kingdom of God its actually an ever expanding universe also known as the spiritual sky,but when we get to the spirit world ill meet up with ye and we'll see,the only problem is is that when you reincarnate you wont remember anything previous from that birth unless God wants you to remember b ye his causless mercy.

Last edited by dobeable; 03-15-2010 at 04:10 PM..
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
the body dies many times in this life and the person cant die its only the body that dies-"...the soul is neither born nor dies..."Bhagavad Gita.

and what happens at judgement, do we all go to Hell forever?maybe your quote their is just another missinterpreted contcept that has come from a butcherd bible,just like the eternal hell concept.
All who reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will go to Hell. And back in the year 1973, I had an encounter with two demons. And I can tell you this, they did not believe that Hell was just another misinterpreted concept. They feared that place.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
All who reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will go to Hell. And back in the year 1973, I had an encounter with two demons. And I can tell you this, they did not believe that Hell was just another missinterpreted concept. They feared that place.
it is stated in the vedas that their are hellish planets,like their are heavenly planets and earthly planets- all are temporary existences.

the earthly planets are like gateways to the spiritual world which is eternal
,on the heavenly planets their is too much enjoyment for one to properly cultivate spiritual life -on the hellish planets their is too much pain-but the earthly planets have just the right balance for proper spiritual life,its not too say that its immpossible to liberate oneself on the heavenly or hellish planes but it is that much harder.

do you really think that God has sent people here just to suffer and enjoy a little then send them all to an eternity of hell,God knows the past ,present and futur ,He knows exactly what the outcome of everyones life is going to be,

their is no justice in eternal punishment let alone any mercy-God is merciful,their is no limit to his mercy,the only thing is though is if you do end up sinning snd commiting loads off offenses and hurtin people and whatever ****e you do,you will have to face the consiquences-you reap what you sow,and nobody deserves eternal hell,not even the ones that dont beleive in God-God is Love,and love dos'nt send their kids to a place where theyll be misled and then send their kids to burn forever just because they fell for the trap,

as for the demons, I know demons exist-Krsna killed many a demon, ones that powers far exceed any of the two that you met,Thats what He can do ,every part of Him is Supreme in everyway,to torture innocent souls forever well that sounds more demonic than anyone ive ever heard of.

and if your one of these people that say that its not God who sends us to hell but ourselves then your mad alltogether,-because it was God who would have created it,because it was God who would have sent us here knowing that we would fail or succeed,and i could explain alot of different things that would show you the error in your statement but this tread is not about etrnal hell but is about the eternity of our existance.

if your into christianity id recomend talk to some creationalists or even anihalationists their theories are a bit better than the eternal hell concept-

i used to beleive in it aswell for years, i was brought up a christian and it was this very thing that made me Question my beleifs and in looking for the truth i found it ,but its not easy to break the conditioning ,you HAVE to beleive in this God now because if you dont then your going to hell arent you,-God wants you to come to him out of love and not out of fear,
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Old 03-15-2010, 10:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
it is stated in the vedas that their are hellish planets,like their are heavenly planets and earthly planets- all are temporary existences.

the earthly planets are like gateways to the spiritual world which is eternal
,on the heavenly planets their is too much enjoyment for one to properly cultivate spiritual life -on the hellish planets their is too much pain-but the earthly planets have just the right balance for proper spiritual life,its not too say that its immpossible to liberate oneself on the heavenly or hellish planes but it is that much harder.

do you really think that God has sent people here just to suffer and enjoy a little then send them all to an eternity of hell,God knows the past ,present and futur ,He knows exactly what the outcome of everyones life is going to be,

their is no justice in eternal punishment let alone any mercy-God is merciful,their is no limit to his mercy,the only thing is though is if you do end up sinning snd commiting loads off offenses and hurtin people and whatever ****e you do,you will have to face the consiquences-you reap what you sow,and nobody deserves eternal hell,not even the ones that dont beleive in God-God is Love,and love dos'nt send their kids to a place where theyll be misled and then send their kids to burn forever just because they fell for the trap,

as for the demons, I know demons exist-Krsna killed many a demon, ones that powers far exceed any of the two that you met,Thats what He can do ,every part of Him is Supreme in everyway,to torture innocent souls forever well that sounds more demonic than anyone ive ever heard of.

and if your one of these people that say that its not God who sends us to hell but ourselves then your mad alltogether,-because it was God who would have created it,because it was God who would have sent us here knowing that we would fail or succeed,and i could explain alot of different things that would show you the error in your statement but this tread is not about etrnal hell but is about the eternity of our existance.

if your into christianity id recomend talk to some creationalists or even anihalationists their theories are a bit better than the eternal hell concept-

i used to beleive in it aswell for years, i was brought up a christian and it was this very thing that made me Question my beleifs and in looking for the truth i found it ,but its not easy to break the conditioning ,you HAVE to beleive in this God now because if you dont then your going to hell arent you,-God wants you to come to him out of love and not out of fear,
Scripture tells us, that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. And I became a Christian when I was 11 years old. Now I am 59. I have not been to church for a number of years now because of my job. Yet, I have a great relationship with the person of Jesus Christ. My faith is not built on what others have told me to believe. Nor is my faith built on church membership. I have had real encounters with the person of Jesus Christ. I can't speak for other faiths, yet I have discovered the Bible is a Book that can be trusted, and that is because both the prophecies, and the historical discoveries only confirm it's reality. And my own encounters with Christ and His dealings with me, have proven to me. That it is only my good that He seeks.

Jesus tells us in John 10:10. That He came so that we may have life, and that we may have it more abundantly. Unlike other faiths, Jesus was fortold in the Old Testament. A Thousand years before the world ever heard His name, the Old Testament Scriptures told us, He would be coming. And He would be coming, to die for the sins of man.
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Old 03-16-2010, 04:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
id like to start this thread on the basis that the soul is eternal and that every living thing has always in some shape or form existed,

evrey living entity is moving thru bodys, even in this lifetime the soul changes bodies,most people beleive that this is our first and only life but then why do people suffer more than others? if there is a god then wouldnt he give evryone the same chance if this is our only life.

the fact of the matter may very well be that weve existed before we came into this life.reincarnation and karma is the universal justice that makes sure every body gets what tey deserve be it good or bad so people that suffer are living out the karma that they cummulated in previous lives, its the only way to accept the pain we feel otherwise god is punishing people for nothing ,where your born is very important after all their are children starving all over the world why would this be the case if their was no previous life,shouldnt everyone be treated the same by life.

the body,mind and senses are imperfect the body is perishable where as the soul which is made of spirit is imperishable, the body which is made of matter is constantly changing but the soul always remains the same,we are eternal souls that possess temporary bodies,it is due to our connection with this temporary body that we have forgotten our real position as an eternal soul.Krishna said in the bhagavad gita that never was their a time he did not exist nor him or Arjuna or anybody and never in the future shall we ever cease to be...
Well what evidence can you present to us that Krishna knew what he was talking about?
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:30 AM
 
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Well what evidence can you present to us that Krishna knew what he was talking about?
read Bhagavad Gita then suss it out yourself it was spoken 5000 years ago
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