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Old 03-03-2010, 03:34 PM
 
12,408 posts, read 13,084,552 times
Reputation: 8886

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Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
Folk who say they have a personal relationship with Jesus, but not religion are really just kidding themselves. your examples are simply asinine.
You are demonstrating clearly for us that in addition to not being able to differentiate between a "mental thought" and a "personal experience" that you are also unable to accept that anyone can ever have a different experience than you do.

Rather than say, "I do not experience what you describe" you instead say that the person "is kidding themselves" and deride them with names such as "asinine." Illustrating for us that if your level of understanding is not capable of grasping what someone is describing, then they must be making it up. In your world view there are no categories of "things you don't understand" or "things you don't experience"

Thank you for showing us clearly that if you don't understand something, then it does not exist; and the person who experiences it is a liar (kidding themselves, making it up, delusional). Wow. Again, I am sorry for you. That is a rather impressive corner you have painted yourself into.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 03-03-2010 at 03:46 PM..

 
Old 03-03-2010, 03:41 PM
 
12,408 posts, read 13,084,552 times
Reputation: 8886
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
Your comparing completely unrelated things; the tangible and the intangible. The argument that a relationship with god is analogous to a relationship with a person or any other tangible things is false and misleading. You can see, taste, touch, smell and hear a person, but you can't see, taste, touch, smell or hear god.
There is nothing "intangible" about personal experience. There is nothing more tangible, more real, more valuable, more meaningful, than personal experience.

"The only source of knowledge is experience. "
---Albert Einstein
 
Old 03-03-2010, 04:13 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,136 posts, read 8,226,063 times
Reputation: 1543
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
1. Religion( in this case Christianity) gives its followers a set of morals, beliefs and practices.
2. Person A says they follow religion.
3. Person B says they have a personal relationship with Jesus, but not religion.
4. Person B follows the same morals, beliefs and practices that the Christian religion establishes.
5. Thus person A and person B are adherents to the Christian religion.
Perhaps you are correct. However, I think the motivation is different. Religion teaches a person to follow a set of rules so that he/she can "earn" his/her way into heaven (or the good graces of X god).

A personal relationship with Jesus is motivated by love towards our Savior. Love in appreciation for salvation, both now & in the future.
 
Old 03-03-2010, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,070 posts, read 4,964,859 times
Reputation: 2477
Congratulations Tzaphkiel, you've thoroughly proved that you're completely wrong. You never give any substantive proof in your argument. All you ever do is repost the same rubbish that I can't make the distinction between mental belief and personal experience blah blah blah.
 
Old 03-03-2010, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,542,177 times
Reputation: 7000
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
Congratulations Tzaphkiel, you've thoroughly proved that you're completely wrong. You never give any substantive proof in your argument. All you ever do is repost the same rubbish that I can't make the distinction between mental belief and personal experience blah blah blah.
frankly I think you are wrong wrong wrong. so far Tza makes more sense than you do. You make simplistic statements as though it is something profound and irrefutable.

Last edited by Goodpasture; 03-03-2010 at 04:44 PM..
 
Old 03-03-2010, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,070 posts, read 4,964,859 times
Reputation: 2477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
frankly I think you are wrong wrong wrong. so far Tza makes more sense than you do. You make simplistic statements as though it is something profound and irrefutable.
Frankly, you're wrong. Explain why those who make the claim follow the same beliefs, morals and practices as the Christian religion tells its adherents to. It follows that those who make the claim are in fact adherents to a religion. It seems that those who make such a claim are really doing so out of arrogance.
 
Old 03-03-2010, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,442,246 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
What's The Difference Between Religion And 'Personal Relationship"?
Lately many believers declare that, instead of religion, they have a 'personal relationship' with god or Jesus.
Is there a difference?
The second form of a personal relationship is a representation for Vigilance at at group of social interaction. Perhaps we were being nostalgic at the good old days of Clinton and earlier.

I reassure myself that in this case Religion was little effected by partison Politics. What was the connection between religion and politics then?

The right then needed a religious revival; but then again it was the left who showed up en-masse at these meetings as it were. They seriously knew how to socialize less.
 
Old 03-03-2010, 05:35 PM
 
37,477 posts, read 25,224,572 times
Reputation: 5853
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
Frankly, you're wrong. Explain why those who make the claim follow the same beliefs, morals and practices as the Christian religion tells its adherents to. It follows that those who make the claim are in fact adherents to a religion.
Hmmmm . . . does that make the atheists and agnostics I know who adhere to the same morals and practices adherents of a religion???
 
Old 03-03-2010, 05:40 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,136 posts, read 8,226,063 times
Reputation: 1543
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
Frankly, you're wrong. Explain why those who make the claim follow the same beliefs, morals and practices as the Christian religion tells its adherents to. It follows that those who make the claim are in fact adherents to a religion. It seems that those who make such a claim are really doing so out of arrogance.
Those who have a real, genuine, personal relationship with Jesus would never be arrogant about their faith. We understand that we are sinners saved by the grace of God alone. We have nothing to be arrogant about.
 
Old 03-03-2010, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,070 posts, read 4,964,859 times
Reputation: 2477
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Hmmmm . . . does that make the atheists and agnostics I know who adhere to the same morals and practices adherents of a religion???
No, but there's a problem with the claim that someone can have a personal relationship with Jesus, but not adhere to religion. The same people that make such a claim follow abide by the same morals, beliefs etc. as the bible gives. It makes me think of that saying where if it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck then it is a duck. Someone may make the claim that they have a personal relationship with Jesus, but not religion, but if they follow the morals, beliefs etc that Christianity gives, then they are by all means adherents to the religion itself.

Last edited by agnostic soldier; 03-03-2010 at 06:11 PM..
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