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There doesn't seem to be a difference. As other posters have said, the folk who claim such things basically have the same set of beliefs/philosophy as the established religion.
I gave up religion and all the denominations that make up the various religions for very personal reasons..I think I have always had a personal relationship with God, but the rules man attached to his religion that was force fed to me for years built a transparent wall between myself and God..I could see Him but religion was telling me I could not reach Him without following their rules..I see Him clearly now through my faith which has grown beyond anything I could have imagined before..It is like I grew up and acknowledged and acted on faith that I am ultimately responsible for myself..
There doesn't seem to be a difference. As other posters have said, the folk who claim such things basically have the same set of beliefs/philosophy as the established religion.
So then what you are saying is, that you can't tell the difference between the word "friend" printed on a piece of paper, and having a "friend" in your life? That for you they are the same thing. For you there is no difference between reading about a lover in a book, and having a lover in your bed. Reading and talking about "sex" is just as satisfying for you as having sex?
Wow. I'm sorry to hear that. It appears that your ability to understand and comprehend the difference is limited in that regard. Thank you for clarifying that for us.
Without Jesus, we would have never heard of Paul. Jesus called Paul to be his voice to the Gentiles.
Really?
Luke 22
20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
Maybe not a new "religion" as you define it...
Jesus was interested in his people the Jews and those are the people he was preaching to. He wanted reform in his religion the Jewish religion. To follow Jesus you first had to become a Jew if you were not Jewish.
He did not write the new testament followers of him wrote down the new testament well after his death. Paul was the one who broke away from Judaism and allowed those not Jewish the gentiles to become part of the community. At this point you have a distinct Christian Church that has broken away from Judaism and both go separate directions.
So then what you are saying is, that you can't tell the difference between the word "friend" printed on a piece of paper, and having a "friend" in your life? That for you they are the same thing. For you there is no difference between reading about a lover in a book, and having a lover in your bed. Reading and talking about "sex" is just as satisfying for you as having sex?
Wow. I'm sorry to hear that. It appears that your ability to understand and comprehend the difference is limited in that regard. Thank you for clarifying that for us.
Let me break down my argument for you. I'll try not to use difficult words so you might be able to understand.
In regards to the supernatural( beings 'outside' the material world), a 'personal relationship' with an invisible man is the same as religious beliefs. When someone says they have a relationship with Jesus/god, they tend to hold the same beliefs as what Christianity teaches, thus they are adherents(followers) of the Christian religion. Does that make sense or did I use big words? I know it is a completely mind boggling concept, but maybe we can help you understand it.
Jesus was interested in his people the Jews and those are the people he was preaching to. He wanted reform in his religion the Jewish religion. To follow Jesus you first had to become a Jew if you were not Jewish.
So when He said this...
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
...He was only referring to the Jews?
And who was He referring to here?
John 10:16
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom
He did not write the new testament followers of him wrote down the new testament well after his death. Paul was the one who broke away from Judaism and allowed those not Jewish the gentiles to become part of the community. At this point you have a distinct Christian Church that has broken away from Judaism and both go separate directions.
a 'personal relationship' is the same as religious beliefs. When someone says they have a relationship with god, they tend to hold the same beliefs, thus they are adherents(followers) of the religion.
To you they are the same, because you are perfectly clear in illustrating that you do not understand or grasp the difference between a personal experience and a mental belief. That you are unable to grasp the distinction between your belief about "a peach" and the experience of savoring "a peach" yourself.
mental belief = peaches are a small fuzzy fruit, it says so in a book and someone told you that
personal experience = you eat a peach yourself
some people are able to make that distinction. those are the ones who know the difference between a "belief" and a "personal experience".
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 03-03-2010 at 01:54 PM..
To you they are the same, because you are perfectly clear in illustrating that you do not understand or grasp the difference between a personal experience and a mental belief. That you are unable to grasp the distinction between your belief about "a peach" and the experience of savoring "a peach" yourself.
mental belief = peaches are a small fuzzy fruit, it says so in a book and someone told you that
personal experience = you eat a peach yourself
some people are able to make that distinction. those are the ones who know the difference between a "belief" and a "personal experience".
Tzaphkiel, you have absolutely no idea whatsoever of what I'm talking about. Here's logic for first graders:
1. Religion( in this case Christianity) gives its followers a set of morals, beliefs and practices.
2. Person A says they follow religion.
3. Person B says they have a personal relationship with Jesus, but not religion.
4. Person B follows the same morals, beliefs and practices that the Christian religion establishes.
5. Thus person A and person B are adherents to the Christian religion.
Folk who say they have a personal relationship with Jesus, but not religion are really just kidding themselves. They follow the same morals, same practices and same beliefs as what Christianity tells its adherents to, therefore they are adherents to religion.
Also, your examples are simply asinine and completely unrelated to my argument. Your comparing to completely unrelated things; the tangible and the intangible. Your basically saying that an invisible undetectable pizza has the same truth and value as a visible eatable pizza. The argument that a relationship with god is analogous to a relationship with a person or any other tangible things is false and misleading. You can see, taste, touch, smell and hear a person, but you can't see, taste, touch, smell or hear god.
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