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Old 03-04-2010, 08:52 AM
 
3,614 posts, read 2,962,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by learningCA View Post
We both agreed that unless the brain and its giant life support system or the rest of the body are alive they cannot make anyone's identity. Right?

Then maybe fanman72 is right in his assumption that our bodies and brains are simply vessels for life, let's say?

When someone dies it is said that they passed on. What passes on? The body with its brain are very much still here. Life is what passes on. It's no more in that vessel, the body with its brain.
Then aren't we simply life?

And if I am life, you are life as well, so we are one. In spite of the unique brain structures and so on.
Still the very same life that operates in all living creatures including you and me.
Ah, I see. No. Life is an abstraction to define something that exhibits a series of behaviors. The 7 characteristics of life to be more specific. There isn't any "universal life force," e.g. the spirit.
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Old 03-04-2010, 01:22 PM
 
37,649 posts, read 25,348,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
Ah, I see. No. Life is an abstraction to define something that exhibits a series of behaviors. The 7 characteristics of life to be more specific. There isn't any "universal life force," e.g. the spirit.
The unwarranted and unscientific certainty expressed here boggles the mind.
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Old 03-04-2010, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Earth
1,107 posts, read 1,828,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The unwarranted and unscientific certainty expressed here boggles the mind.
Learn to control your mind so it does not get so easily boggled.

Last edited by Aeroman; 03-04-2010 at 01:38 PM.. Reason: I should do more walking meditation. Good for the body and mind.
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Old 03-04-2010, 01:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aeroman View Post
learn to control your mind so it does not get so easily boggled.
He,he . . .
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The unwarranted and unscientific certainty expressed here boggles the mind.
You disagree, Mystic? Feel free to explain why, in complete sentences if you will.
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Old 03-04-2010, 03:35 PM
 
37,649 posts, read 25,348,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
Ah, I see. No. Life is an abstraction to define something that exhibits a series of behaviors. The 7 characteristics of life to be more specific. There isn't any "universal life force," e.g. the spirit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
You disagree, Mystic? Feel free to explain why, in complete sentences if you will.
Despite its confusing nature . . . the maxim "The exception proves the rule" (when correctly understood in its legal sense) . . . serves to establish the existence of a "life force." There are myriad ways that a human life can be ended and we usually can explain it medically. But there are times when fully functioning human bodies with no deficits whatsoever in ALL the areas essential to human life . . . cease to function anyway. SOMETHING that is responsible for the complex coordination of multi-cellular activity that keeps our marvelous machinery operating in concert for the maintenance of life . . . LEAVES and the shutdowns signaling death ensue. What would you call that, Konraden?
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Old 03-04-2010, 03:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Despite its confusing nature . . . the maxim "The exception proves the rule" (when correctly understood in its legal sense) . . . serves to establish the existence of a "life force." There are myriad ways that a human life can be ended and we usually can explain it medically. But there are times when fully functioning human bodies with no deficits whatsoever in ALL the areas essential to human life . . . cease to function anyway. SOMETHING that is responsible for the complex coordination of multi-cellular activity that keeps our marvelous machinery operating in concert for the maintenance of life . . . LEAVES and the shutdowns signaling death ensue. What would you call that, Konraden?
Are you talking about when people just drop dead? You have this ability to obfuscate. I guess you could claim their breath leaves, or perhaps the contents of their bowels. Without any specific case evidence to present to me, Mythic, you know where I stand.

Of course, let's keep it simple. Take us down to the simplest of structure: the cell.

It fulfills the seven characteristics we subscribe to life.
-it is made of cells.
-It has structured\organized
-It uses energy
-It Responds to its environment
-It grows
-It reproduces
-It adapts.

The human body is very complex, and so are basic cells. What is it about a cell that mysteriously dies without any explanation possible?

And of course, "the exception that proves the rule" is just bad reasoning.
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:30 PM
 
37,649 posts, read 25,348,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
Are you talking about when people just drop dead? You have this ability to obfuscate. I guess you could claim their breath leaves, or perhaps the contents of their bowels. Without any specific case evidence to present to me, Mythic, you know where I stand.

Of course, let's keep it simple. Take us down to the simplest of structure: the cell.

It fulfills the seven characteristics we subscribe to life.
-it is made of cells.
-It has structured\organized
-It uses energy
-It Responds to its environment
-It grows
-It reproduces
-It adapts.

The human body is very complex, and so are basic cells. What is it about a cell that mysteriously dies without any explanation possible?

And of course, "the exception that proves the rule" is just bad reasoning.
Lets use your rule for life. Human life is composed of billions of different cells that are structured and organized to use energy, respond to the environment, grow, reproduce and adapt. That is all that is necessary for human life. When we encounter a situation where these capabilities exist but life departs anyway . . . we can assume something else is necessary.

So the correct rule becomes:

You have to have something more than billions of different cells that are structured and organized to use energy, respond to the environment, grow, reproduce and adapt for life to exist.

The exception demonstrates the correct rule exists.

The exception is NOT testing whether billions of different cells that are structured and organized to use energy, respond to the environment, grow, reproduce and adapt is necessary for human life . . . they clearly are. And it certainly isn't proving that billions of different cells that are structured and organized to use energy, respond to the environment, grow, reproduce and adapt are NOT necessary for human life (the incorrect rule)

Exceptio probat regulam in casibus non exceptis.
(In the cases NOT excepted the exception proves the rule.)
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Lets use your rule for life. Human life is composed of billions of different cells that are structured and organized to use energy, respond to the environment, grow, reproduce and adapt. That is all that is necessary for human life. When we encounter a situation where these capabilities exist but life departs anyway . . . we can assume something else is necessary.
Which situation?

But of course, you're claiming that there is something more to life other than the seven characteristics we define it as. Your rule should apply to all living things. Living things include cells. What 8th property are cells missing? Do cells have spirits?
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,464 posts, read 9,671,990 times
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My thoughts on the afterlife? There isn't one, unless you count turning into dirt and maggot food, an afterlife.
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