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There has been many discussions by Jews and Christians regarding the Koran. In recent times there has been an emphasis on Koran and violence and Koran and freedom and Koran and women. Although I have dealt with the issue of violence and freedom in my other posts, I will talk about another issue which I think is absolutely crucial in understanding why the Jews and Christians can never accept the Koran. There are of cource many other reasons why people question the Koran, and certainly in the history and current reality of many adherents of the so called Islamic faith do raise issues regarding frredom and women and violence. But my main concern is about these two religious traditions and why the real issues that seperate them from the Koran are rarely highlited.
Though these two religions reject each other and are odds with one another but they do have one thing in common regarding the Koran. My purpose here is to explain the role of Jesus in shaping the attitude these two religioons have regarding the Koran.
Those who pay attention can notice that there is constant attempt by Christians, and here I mean the orthodoxy, to paint Islam as somehow different from either Christianity or even Judaism. Muhammad is never compared with any of the prophets you read in the Bible. There is always an attempt even to distance themselves from the God of the Koran. The reality is these differences they try to propagate are fakes. Because the real difference and point of contention between the Koran and these two religions is on what they believe about Jesus and what the Koran says about Jesus. Both these religious traditions could never accept the Jesus reality as presented in the Koran. Once again these are not the only issues, but as a Koranist who does not confirm to Sunni/Shia sectarianism, my intention is to highlight their rejection of the Koran. I will show how regardless of any other issues, the Jesus of the Koran stand in stark contradiction to the central theological core of these two faiths, Judaism and Christianity as practiced and understood by the orthodoxies.
The Koran says it came to confirm the previous scriptures:
5.46. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God.
"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3).
2.41 And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.
2.89 And when there comes to them a Book from God, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognized, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of God is on those without Faith.
If the Koran came to confirm the Torah and Gospel and speaks of them as Divine revelations, why would both the Jews and Christians have a serious problem with the Koran? The answer is Jesus.
The Christian orthodoxy is built around the divinity of Jesus, and the Jewsih orthodoxy is built on the awaiting of the Messiah and their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah and indeed of his miraculous birth. Although these are not the only issues the orthodoxies are structured around, without them the orthodoxy can not maintain itself as it is.
So what does the Koran say about Jesus?
When the angel said, "Mary, God gives you a good tidings of a Word from Him whose name is messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, -high honoured shall he be in this world and the next, near stationed to God. He shall speak to men in the cradle, and of age, and righteous he shall be, "lord" said Mary "How shall I have a son, seeing no mortal has touched me? "Even so, he said "God creates what He will". When he decrees a thing He but say to it, "Be", and it is. (Al-Imran 3:45-47)
"Then she brought the child to her folk, carrying him, and they said, "Mary, you have surely committed a monstrous thing. Sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, nor your mother a woman unchaste. Mary pointed to the child; but they said, 'Hoe shall we speak to one who still in the cradle, a little child. And he said, 'Lo, I am God's servant, God has given me the Book and made me a Prophet Blessed He has made me ,wherever/may be; and He has enjoined me to prayer, and to give the alms so long as I live, and likewise to cherish my mother; He has not made me arrogant and wicked. Peace be upon me, the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I am raised up alive. "Maryam 19:29-33)
5.110.Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'
This will be absolutely rejected by the Jewish Rabbis. This not only confirms the miraculous birth of Jesus but also confirms he was the awaited messiah as promised in the Hebrew Bible. The Jews rejected Jesus and still do and these verses alone are more than enough to convince the Judaic orthodoxy to reject the Koran outright. Nothing stands against the Judaic orthodoxy more than these verses.
As far as the Christian orthodoxy:
"And they say, The All-Merciful has taken unto Himself a son. You have indeed advanced something hideous. As if the skies are about to burst, the earth to split asunder and its mountain to fall down in the utter ruin for that they have attributed to the All-merciful a son; and behaves not the All-merciful to take a son. None there in the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant" (Maryam 19:88-93)
Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight is as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then He said upon him, 'Be' and he was. (Al-Imran 3:59)
People of the Book, do not go beyond the bounds in your religion, and say nought as to God but the Truth. The messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the messenger of God, and his word that he committed to Mary, and a spirit originating from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not 'Three'. Refrain, better is for you. God is only one God. Glory be to him-that He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the Heavens and in the Earth; God suffices for a guardian.(4.171)
This is of course in stark contrast and indeed a denounciation of the Christian orthodoxy which is structured on the divinity of Jesus and the Trinity. These verses alone completely nullifies that orthodoxy in its core theological understanding.
So both these religions can not accept that Jesus was the awaited Messiah born of a miraculous nature but yet human and completely unassociated physically with the Almighty. Yet these issues are never discussed and distractions are usually presented. of course these are not the only issues since Islam has a sectarian component as represented by the Sunni/Shia religions which rely on oral traditions, known as hadiths, that dominate their religions and in many cases contradict the Koran. But the verses I presented today I am sure will clearly indicate that theverses about Jesus in the Koran by itself is enough for the Judiac and Christian orthodoxy to reject the Koran outright.
Does the Quran promote Violence?
After 9-11 there has been various debates about Islam. Some have said that the terrorist are Islam's true spoken. The so called moderates practice taqiya. Taqiya is the deliberate lying for the faith.
All this spamming of the so-called peaceful Quran is summed up in the bolded sentence in blue!!!! Save yourself the trouble of reading the propaganda.
I think the best Muslims can do is to denounce terrorism in all forms, give women equal rights, stop calling people who aren't Muslims non-believers, idolaters, pagans and any questioning of the Quran or honest assessment of the Quran or Muslims in general as blasphemy and repel the various blashemy laws that have been instituted in countries as a result of Muslims. The best apologetics for the religion of Islam is to say nothing about it and in general that has worked, since the Quran is originally in Arabic, and people are discouraged to use translations of it, its meaning isn't well-known by its practioners, much less those who aren't practioners. So yeah, your quotes don't really help your case one bit.
I don't see how Muslims are going to expect to get Christians or Jews to side with them when they continue to kill them. No amount of claiming Islam is a religion of peace is going to cut it.
I think the best Muslims can do is to denounce terrorism in all forms, give women equal rights, stop calling people who aren't Muslims non-believers, idolaters, pagans and any questioning of the Quran or honest assessment of the Quran or Muslims in general as blasphemy and repel the various blashemy laws that have been instituted in countries as a result of Muslims. The best apologetics for the religion of Islam is to say nothing about it and in general that has worked, since the Quran is originally in Arabic, and people are discouraged to use translations of it, its meaning isn't well-known by its practioners, much less those who aren't practioners. So yeah, your quotes don't really help your case one bit.
I don't see how Muslims are going to expect to get Christians or Jews to side with them when they continue to kill them. No amount of claiming Islam is a religion of peace is going to cut it.
But that argument is weak because Christians and Jews are not angels, to say the least. There has been far more killing by Jews and Christians(Marxism, Stalin, WW1, WW2 etc) than there has been Muslims killings. Of course the Christians had more resources and power that allowed them to do so.
So that argument won't exactly cut it since people like Bin laden say we are doing to them what they are doing to us.
I don't see how Muslims are going to expect to get Christians or Jews to side with them when they continue to kill them. No amount of claiming Islam is a religion of peace is going to cut it.
Actions speak louder than words. Granted, there are muslims that do practice a peaceful faith. I equate them to our more liberal Christians. "True" muslims, like "True" Christians, are every bit as intolerant of each other as they are of others.
But that argument is weak because Christians and Jews are not angels, to say the least. There has been far more killing by Jews and Christians(Marxism, Stalin, WW1, WW2 etc) than there has been Muslims killings. Of course the Christians had more resources and power that allowed them to do so.
So that argument won't exactly cut it since people like Bin laden say we are doing to them what they are doing to us.
So the Quran is a better argument.
Nobody is an angel, not sure what your point is. You obviously don't know anything about "Marxism, Stalin, WWI, or WWII". A lot of the Muslim/Arab countries aren't very supportive of the sciences and freedom in general, which is necessary for scientific breakthroughs, which is why they lack the power of other countries; to be honest that is probably a good thing as likely they would have dropped nuclear bombs on anyone who they don't like.
"Quran is a better argument" is purely a dogmatic statement; it subsists on lies, fear tactics and indoctrination of the youth. If it wasn't for 9/11 and other terrorist attacks, the U.S. invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan that is occurring now would never have flied in the United States. Bush used the 9/11 attack as an excuse to implement certain unconstitutional laws like the Patriot Act. If Bin Ladin had his way he'd wipe out every non-Muslim country out of existence. The United States has the atomic bomb and the fact that we haven't used it against countries that are clearly extremely hostile to us says we only want to resolve things in as peaceful a manner as possible, but Bin Ladin(or any other Muslim terrorist) doesn't really want to give us a choice in that matter. The war in the middle east is costing the United States billions of dollars; the soldiers don't want to be there; the citizens of the United States don't want the war, but Bin Ladin(Al Quada) and all the varying other Muslim terrorists groups want war and don't care who they hurt.
To be honest it sounds like you are supporting terrorism in the name of Islam, so you are a part of the problem.
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