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Old 03-05-2010, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
4,368 posts, read 4,097,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
I think he understands that quite well. You need to read his post again, and more carefully this time..
He wrote

"After years of scandals involving gay priests who molested young boys"

I see no difference in his wording and the wording that has been used over and over at forums by those that are bigoted against gays.


Maybe he should have expressed himself more clearly.

No one can assume they know the sexual orientation of all the abusers.
You don't have to be gay to be a pedophile.
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Old 03-05-2010, 08:10 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,107,711 times
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So many Vatican scandals... so little time for absolution.

Star: Pope moves to end Vatican scandal

Papal aide, Vatican singer fired over alleged gay-prostitute ring -

BBC News - Vatican picks over Irish paedophile priest scandal
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,052,841 times
Reputation: 4273
When are we going to wake up and realize that the Catholic Church is nothing more than a plague of the human condition whose leaders should be tried at the Hague for crimes against humanity? Is there a single sovereign state on this Earth other than the Vatican that could literally send its "diplomats" to places like New Zealand, Canada, the United States, Germany, Ireland, Africa, South America, and be accused of not just one but multitudes of counts of child molestation, rape, torture and pedophilia without having severe repercussions?

Think about this for a second. Throughout the history of our country, we've come across other sovereign states in which we have seldom had talking relations and we've even enacted a trade embargo without second thought on some of them. We do not have a trade agreement with Cuba. I'd like to ask... Is the government of Cuba any worse than the promotion of child rape and torture (as well as co-ordinated genocide and a long history of anti-Semitism) that the Vatican has tried to hide for all these years?

The Catholic Church has done more international harm and damage than Saddam Hussein's alleged weapons of mass destruction. They should be held accountable for thousands if not millions of deaths in Africa. There is no telling, at this point, how many children have literally suffered from the hands of a penis wielding priest but given how many countries it has now happened in... I think it's safe to say we're dealing with a problem of epidemic proportions.

Why is it that we are even on speaking terms with the Vatican at this point? If they were any other country we'd have already invaded them, bombed them back to the Stone Age, and set up an "Occupation Force" to help with the "Rebuilding Effort" by now. As a sovereign state, the leaders of this disreputable organization should be tried, convicted and hanged for crimes against humanity. Their vast fortunes and wealth should be spread out to the millions of lives they've successfully helped torture and destroy throughout the years and they should go down in the history books as one of the most vile, tainted, and corrupt organizations of all time. Their disastrous disruption of humanity, their completely selfish and immoral approach to the human condition, as well as their child-orgy mantra should be taught in every school and in every history book as an example of what not to be.

I say we treat the Vatican like the sovereign state they'd like to be. And like every sovereign state that would have a history of screwing little children, spreading deadly diseases on a WMD scale, and embezzling egregious amounts of money for their own wealth and prosperity - we should enact a U.N. Resolution against them while doing the world a favor and working to get rid of them.
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Old 03-06-2010, 03:12 AM
 
37,606 posts, read 25,300,228 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
When are we going to wake up and realize that the Catholic Church is nothing more than a plague of the human condition whose leaders should be tried at the Hague for crimes against humanity? Is there a single sovereign state on this Earth other than the Vatican that could literally send its "diplomats" to places like New Zealand, Canada, the United States, Germany, Ireland, Africa, South America, and be accused of not just one but multitudes of counts of child molestation, rape, torture and pedophilia without having severe repercussions?

Think about this for a second. Throughout the history of our country, we've come across other sovereign states in which we have seldom had talking relations and we've even enacted a trade embargo without second thought on some of them. We do not have a trade agreement with Cuba. I'd like to ask... Is the government of Cuba any worse than the promotion of child rape and torture (as well as co-ordinated genocide and a long history of anti-Semitism) that the Vatican has tried to hide for all these years?

The Catholic Church has done more international harm and damage than Saddam Hussein's alleged weapons of mass destruction. They should be held accountable for thousands if not millions of deaths in Africa. There is no telling, at this point, how many children have literally suffered from the hands of a penis wielding priest but given how many countries it has now happened in... I think it's safe to say we're dealing with a problem of epidemic proportions.

Why is it that we are even on speaking terms with the Vatican at this point? If they were any other country we'd have already invaded them, bombed them back to the Stone Age, and set up an "Occupation Force" to help with the "Rebuilding Effort" by now. As a sovereign state, the leaders of this disreputable organization should be tried, convicted and hanged for crimes against humanity. Their vast fortunes and wealth should be spread out to the millions of lives they've successfully helped torture and destroy throughout the years and they should go down in the history books as one of the most vile, tainted, and corrupt organizations of all time. Their disastrous disruption of humanity, their completely selfish and immoral approach to the human condition, as well as their child-orgy mantra should be taught in every school and in every history book as an example of what not to be.

I say we treat the Vatican like the sovereign state they'd like to be. And like every sovereign state that would have a history of screwing little children, spreading deadly diseases on a WMD scale, and embezzling egregious amounts of money for their own wealth and prosperity - we should enact a U.N. Resolution against them while doing the world a favor and working to get rid of them.
So Troop . . . how do you really feel?
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Old 03-06-2010, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Western Cary, NC
4,349 posts, read 6,495,191 times
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The news in the last month has touched on much more than just than an usher for the pope using male prostitutes or prostitutes in general. Ireland continues to open doors to new layers of child abuse, Germany see an expanding list of abused, and lets the pope know this is the church’s problem and they will have to deal with it under German laws. Denmark last week announced they are investigating child abuse by the catholic church, and the list continues on a world wide scale. The usher is a minor symptom of the core corruption within the church. The condoning of abuse and the associated cover-up is exposing the rotten foundation and most people are not stupid enough to continue following the fraud. The lecture by A. C. Grayling (in a CD thread “Religion in its Death Throes”) is supported by this view. We are watching the decline and fall of religion on a global level. In my view it is 2000 years overdue.
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Old 03-06-2010, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,052,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
So Troop . . . how do you really feel?
If I said how I really felt I might get banned.
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Old 03-06-2010, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,422,672 times
Reputation: 5442
ted08721 wrote:
Quote:
"After years of scandals involving gay priests who molested young boys"

I see no difference in his wording and the wording that has been used over and over at forums by those that are bigoted against gays.


Maybe he should have expressed himself more clearly.
The fact that there are a large number of priests who have molested young boys is irrefutable but that wasn't intended as an attack against gays and lesbians in general. The feeling that I have is that these men have been forced to repress their sexual desires by their religious beliefs and that has resulted in a very unhealthy situation because they've isolated themselves and when they come into contact with young boys the temptation is too great.
If they could accept their own sexuality and realize that it isn't wrong between consenting adults this sort of thing wouldn't be happening. I blame religion for creating this problem in the first place. For centuries many of the major religions have condemned homosexuality for the simple reason that they're completely ignorant of the nature of human sexuality and they've brainwashed their followers to see it as an unspeakable sin. This has made life miserable for millions of people who are unable to change their sexuality and see themselves as worthless sinners.
The last thing a gay man should do is become a priest. He should accept himself and also be accepted by society.
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Old 03-06-2010, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
4,368 posts, read 4,097,353 times
Reputation: 2652
MG no problem here , if anything maybe I did over reacted in my original post.
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Old 03-06-2010, 08:15 PM
 
17,853 posts, read 11,772,882 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
ted08721 wrote:

The fact that there are a large number of priests who have molested young boys is irrefutable but that wasn't intended as an attack against gays and lesbians in general. The feeling that I have is that these men have been forced to repress their sexual desires by their religious beliefs and that has resulted in a very unhealthy situation because they've isolated themselves and when they come into contact with young boys the temptation is too great.
If they could accept their own sexuality and realize that it isn't wrong between consenting adults this sort of thing wouldn't be happening. I blame religion for creating this problem in the first place. For centuries many of the major religions have condemned homosexuality for the simple reason that they're completely ignorant of the nature of human sexuality and they've brainwashed their followers to see it as an unspeakable sin. This has made life miserable for millions of people who are unable to change their sexuality and see themselves as worthless sinners.
The last thing a gay man should do is become a priest. He should accept himself and also be accepted by society.
I think there is confusion because many of the child victims of these pedophile priests have been boys. People tend to automatically think that just because the victim was the same gender as the perpetrator that it means the perpeptrator must be homosexual. This is not so.

For a pedophile, it's the age and innocence of the victim which attracts them, not the gender. These pedophile priests generally do not have same-sex attraction to adult men...therefore they are not gay.

If these predator priests had had the same sort of access to altar girls, or girls schools, it would have been girls who were being molested. It's the age and power imbalance that attracts a pedophile, not the gender.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=9108269

Report: Homosexuality No Factor in Abusive Priests
"Bishop-commissioned report finds no evidence so far that gay priests are more likely to abuse"

And a more general article on dispelling myths about child molestation:
Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation
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Old 03-06-2010, 08:44 PM
 
17,853 posts, read 11,772,882 times
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From:
Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation


Quote:
Another problem related to terminology arises because sexual abuse of male children by adult men2 is often referred to as "homosexual molestation." The adjective "homosexual" (or "heterosexual" when a man abuses a female child) refers to the victim's gender in relation to that of the perpetrator. Unfortunately, people sometimes mistakenly interpret it as referring to the perpetrator's sexual orientation.

To avoid this confusion, it is preferable to refer to men's sexual abuse of boys with the more accurate label of male-male molestation. Similarly, it is preferable to refer to men's abuse of girls as male-female molestation. These labels are more accurate because they describe the sex of the individuals involved but don't implicitly convey unwarranted assumptions about the perpetrator's sexual orientation.

The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's sexual orientation is important because many child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys, girls, or children of both sexes.
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